News: Fire Berhalter

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by bigredmachine, Oct 15, 2019.

  1. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    This is such a stupid exercise. Just being with an MLS club doent mean a thing. Do people really think Gio is who he is because NYCFC? The worst is Weah. That year he spent with NYRB is what really put him over the top.
     
  2. adam tash

    adam tash BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    USMNT won 1 out 4 games at the WC and a lot of people in this thread are happy with him and want him back

    USMNT was outscored overall at the WC ( 3 goals for, 4 goals against) and a lot of people are defending him and want more!

    SMH
     
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  3. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Yes, I would prefer them in quality clubs in Europe that are good fit for them or challenging them to develop in way that will help them down the road.

    Where a player plays may have an input on my evaluation of player but that is a small thing. I dont like Gio because he is at Dortmund and not like Acosta because he plays for Philadelphia. Gio is special player with incredible potential. Acosta is an athlete that plays soccer for some reason. If Gio for some reason came back to MLS, I wouldn't be happy about the choice but will still want him playing for the USMNT until other players surpassed him.

    I agree that we will have more and more talent in Europe, but don't trust this federation to not play MLS guys at this point for some non soccer related reason.
     
  4. Fighting Illini

    Fighting Illini Member+

    Feb 6, 2014
    Chicago
    If you go to a league of that size you have to find a different way to structure the competition that makes games meaningful, not to mention the horrible weather problems you run into if you start getting into places like Vegas and Phoenix in the same league as places like Minneapolis and Detroit.

    The answer: partially regionalize the competition! Now brilliantly detailed at You Be The Don! https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/regional-leagues-a-modest-proposal.2123499/


    Honestly, go over there and tell me it sucks if you want to, but I really do think it quite elegantly makes some of the tensions and paradoxes of where the league wants to go work with each other rather than against.
     
  5. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Why is watering down the first division a good plan.

    I have pretty much believed that there are really only two models that help us reach our potential as country. Pro/Rel or follow a baseball model with each major league team having a farm system at least three levels and supplementary leagues.

    Pro/Rel is so obvious and solves most of the problems in the game by making it attractive for anyone with a reasonable amount of money to invest if they want. If the billionaire owners don't want that, then start building a farm system with all the coaches, scouts, youth teams, etc needed to make it viable.
     
  6. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    I agree that development is getting better but has a long, long way to go.

    Adams and Aaronson are big wins. Maybe Richards, but his story just highlights how screwy the youth system is.

    Any MLS fan will tell you Busio is no good because he plays in the second division. It is so stupid it hurts.
     
  7. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    We always win either 0 or 1 games in the World Cup, with two exceptions: 1930 and 2002.
     
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  8. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Great feedback from a condescending troll who goes around telling people how much soccer they watch and how their opinions are wrong/stupid.

    I havent pushed any conspiracy. I have point out where there are conflicts of interest and the perception of something happening.

    I have been reading people on here for 20 years and have interacted with a lot of them for over 8. I used to treat people with respect on here but that isn't common. After getting attacked for years, I chose to view interactions with people on here differently.

    I have chosen to generalize things on here because that is what generally happens and it is easier to just say MLS fans than try to caveat every statement I make. So no, I dont assume everyone is involved in anything I suggest, but most of my generalizations are based on closely watching patterns of people on here. Some will defend MLS and Berhalter no matter what. The same clowns that still defend my criticism of Berhalter use of MLS players in 2019 or getting rid of a player are the same ones that shouted at everything and body from 2014 to 2016.

    I dont recall you ever telling any of those morons that they were causing damage to world for not respecting others. They were much, much worse and dont think you are any better. The only thing that has changed is what I am saying and I am near as nasty as they are/were.
     
  9. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yet the people who make the decision are those with their franchise value at risk.
     
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  10. WrmBrnr

    WrmBrnr Member+

    Apr 12, 2001
    San Carlos
    Sam Vines for left back on your MLS team
     
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  11. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    May 4, 2002
    This thread has become more about what is right/wrong with the MLS than it is about Gregg Berhalter and his coaching "style" or lack thereof. That is unfortunate and kind of sad.
    I don't think Berhalter is a good coach at all, even at the MLS level although he might work out well at the middle level of the Canadian Premier league or maybe at an average high school team. However using the MLS as a clue as to his abilities is not a good scale. Better would be exactly how any team he has coached has done in the league involved but that would also produce bad analogies.
    To really judge Gregg Berhalter we should simply make a reasonable expectation level and see where he fails or succeeds. I think he fails miserably at every coaching job he has had but I can also see that others might see his performance differently.

    I have thought and continue to think he has done a HORRIBLE job with the USMNT and that he should have been fired two years ago for incompetence or never hired in the first place.

    But his choices of players and even his selections is not the problem. Given even decent coaching the US should have two out of the three group matches and we should have been competitive in the round of 16 match, maybe with a chance or two to win. That is even without "better" selections.

    One of the first things he said after taking the job was that he wanted a "system" that would not change regardless of personnel. I do not remember him ever recanting that statement but it is clearly wrong for national teams. However he did lighten up a bit and played some slightly different systems in reaction to available players. I am not sure if "self delusion" is a good trait for coaches but he clearly has that trait in good measure.

    I want him gone and completely divorced from all contact with the USMNT. But the dammage has been done and, unfortunately, it will take a new person the full four years to fix most of the stupidities Gregg Berhalter brought to the table.

    Fire Berhalter, yes. Blame the MLS for the stupidity, no.

    Maybe we can get Honduras or Hatti or some such to hire him and then replace him with a coach that actually exhibits intelligence in the coaching style required to make a National Team better than the sum of its parts. Maybe somewhat like Bora Milutinovic. We do not need a "fancy" coach but we do need a pragmatist in that position and one that actually understands how to get the best out of players that come from very different systems and have VERY limited time together.
     
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  12. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The US talent is not currently elite. How many of the current quarterfinalists do we have more talent than?
     
  13. Roger Allaway

    Roger Allaway Member+

    Apr 22, 2009
    Warminster, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not true.
     
  14. wasdykec

    wasdykec Member

    May 6, 2002
    Jax, Florida
    I don't think anyone believes the year Weah spent put him over the top. What I think most people believe/understand, is that the Weahs and the Gios are probably the outliers. If MLS/USL academies aren't producing talent that goes to Europe the USMNT will never succeed. MLS and USL are more important to the USMNT success than most people will acknowledge.
     
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  15. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Yeah, van Gaal’s comments about the tournament starting now may sting, but there’s certainly a ring of truth there. And I note he highlights “top players” as the main reason why Argentina is different, and not anything about any “stupid Egg of a coach.” Sounds like he wouldn’t have been afraid of an alternate U.S. boss who rolled out some different choices.
     
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  16. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    I wish it were a typo, but it was a mistake. Many, not any.
     
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  17. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Unfortunately, the outliers are what is driving our players. There isnt some repeatable thing these academies are doing at this point. I think we all hope that will change soon.

    The common things most of our top players have is they come from a soccer family and/or they spent time in Europe at a young age. That covers Pulisic, Weah, Aaronson, Mckennie, Musah, Robinson, CCV, Brooks, Dest, Reyna. Besides Adams, there isnt much but possible depth.
     
  18. adam tash

    adam tash BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    so just be happy with status quo mediocrity?

    accept our lowly performance level and dont ask for more??
     
  19. adam tash

    adam tash BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    at the U24 level??!

    I'd say brazil and france are the only teams that are clearly ahead of the US in terms of talent but even with them it would be competitive and i'd like the us' chances of winning.
     
  20. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    Credit where due - that’s a pretty funny comeback. Repped.
     
  21. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    I mean we almost had 2 starting center backs from MLS who played college ball. People who crap on these players are down right unAmerican.
     
  22. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    How shocked will they be when they find out that its the players who are the conspirators keeping Berhalter in place?

    We heard from insiders that Berhalter is well-liked in that locker room up to this point.
     
  23. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Except that teams are allowed to use players over 24 at the World Cup.

    7 of the 8 teams in the quarterfinals have better talent and we roughly the same talent level of Morocco.
     
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  24. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    One thing that is important to note about the non MLS group is how many were raised in USA....ie how many are actually products of the US development system vs the US recruitment system.

    If the aspiration is to be a top world power, we can't rely on our recruitment system over our development system. What top country relies primarily on recruitment? As much as some believe MLS is a detriment to USMNT, it is not. Furthermore, if we are to continue to improve, it is crucial that it play an even bigger role going forward. Initially that may only mean sending more players to Europe but as the quality of the league improves, it only stands to reason that the quality (not just quantity) of the young players being sent over will improve as well.
     
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  25. The Clientele

    The Clientele Member+

    Portland Timbers
    Jun 25, 2005
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It kind of boils down to this simple question, doesn’t it?

    I realize a coach makes a big difference. But if your talent still lags behind the top 10, can you put all the blame on the coach?!
     
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