News: Fire Berhalter

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by bigredmachine, Oct 15, 2019.

  1. WrmBrnr

    WrmBrnr Member+

    Apr 12, 2001
    San Carlos
    That's right! And Michael Bradley didn't forget to track his runner and giving up an early goal. Unlike Adams against the Dutch. Brooks and Bradley should have been there!:rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
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  2. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just an FYI...Dike JUST returned from injury this week. He wasn't available for the WC. Plus he's barely played this year, due to injuries.

    USMNT fans are something.

    The USMNT has a ceiling. The US does not, despite what some have convinced themselves of, have more than a handful of top'ish tier football players. They have Pulisic, McKennie (when he isn't injured and has his head on straight), Musah will be he's not quite there yet, and Dest. Reyna has the talent to get there, he just hasn't played nearly enough at the pro level yet. An argument can made for Adams, though he''s really only played in a Red Bull style pressing system. That's it. There's a clear and obvious drop off in talent and player levels after those mentioned.

    It's not close either. There isn't a reliable goalscorer up top. Pefok ain't it. He wasn't it when he was called in, and he's not now. Vazquez ain't it. Tata could have called him in for Mexico, but didn't, and they certainly needed help up top. Tim Weah is very talented, I'm just not convinced he's going to be more than he currently is. The defenders are okay, there's nothing special about them. The backup midfielders are all interchangeable Gold Cup Group stage and NL early round players. I seriously have to question those who are claiming otherwise. To those who claim to watch all of these players play in Europe.....you're either lying, have no clue what you're looking at, or simply watch highlight clips on social media. Possibly all three. Some of this "fan" base lives in an alternate reality........

    Sir Alex Ferguson wouldn't be able to get this cast of players past the RD of 16 at a World Cup unless something ridiculously crazy happened.

    I'm not even a fan of GGG, but the irrational, delusional vitriol toward him is just unwarranted.

    The USSF should go with another coach, simply because one cycle is enough.

    Of course if Earnie offers him close to or tmore han $2M annually to come back....I wouldn't blame GGG for giving it another go.
     
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  3. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think he should have been invited to camp.

    I didn't say he should play in the WC and take penalties for the team.
     
  4. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    Man that’s just insane.
     
  5. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    Do you not remember him being a disaster in qualifying?
     
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  6. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Plenty, but that is not what my argument is. I've explained to you many times and yet you can only think about it this way. You don't seem to respect what it means to be called into the national team.
     
  7. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Except Berhalter will play those deck chairs. Shaq Moore just played in two games at the WC.
     
  8. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    You don't seem to be able to think for yourself.

    Nah, I think the path MLS is on is dead end. It is going to keep us in mediocrity for the rest of our lives. You guys go on and on about it is getting better. It never meets a defined goal but you cheerleaders go on and on and on about better. Some moron shout that MLS has made Concacaf better and everyone gets excited. Everyone talks about hoe many MLS players were going to the WC and how it is such a big sign about the league. Nobidy follows up to explain that most of them got knocked out early and maybe a bench player is left. Nobody points out that while concacaf has gotten better other regions have pulled away.

    Nope... we need something different.
     
  9. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Haha.... and you guys think you are helping grow the game.
     
  10. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Wow, the soccer press are miserable in this country. They aren't journalists. They are like you guys. They are just MLS and US soccer cheerleaders. Great little puff piece here crediting Berhalter with integrating young players who were already integrated while he was still Jenkins around in Columbus.

     
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  11. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you are going to criticize the coach for leaving off European players for MLS players, you should name who those players we were leaving off are. Otherwise you’re just complaining for the sake of it.
     
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  12. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ok so let’s abolish MLS then? And replace it with what? You planning on throwing out all the owners who have invested in MLS too? Where do you plan on getting the investment for this new venture that’s “something different”?
     
  13. Fighting Illini

    Fighting Illini Member+

    Feb 6, 2014
    Chicago
    Both can be true y'know. MLS can be rapidly improving but still on a dead end path to a hard ceiling. I believe there's a whole other thread on that topic around here somewhere.

    But anyway, to the point about defined goals, winning the CCL has been a white whale of the league for years and they finally did it in 2022.

    And the Leagues Cup, love it or hate it, is going to put the league's competitive standing on the field, not tifos or Matthew McConnaughey appearances but how good are the teams, under a very high-profile microscope.
     
  14. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Again, you are acting like a child and I am not going engage in this childish way of thinking.

    I know you don't like it, but it goes all the way back to 2019. Give all the players a fair chance, not just the MLS ones and you get your answer.
     
  15. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    I think I just said that. It is improving, but looks to be improving slower than other parts of the world. Definitely a hard ceiling.

    Why should I care that they bought a bunch of foreigners so they could win the CCL? I am not an MLS fan. I am a USMNT fan in a USMNT forum. That means the only thing I care about is an American that can help the USMNT. I dont care that some nerd on the internet claims MLS is better than some other league. I care about whether the American players in MLS can thrive in that other league.
     
  16. Fighting Illini

    Fighting Illini Member+

    Feb 6, 2014
    Chicago
    Well but this is the whole SUM thing, right?

    USMNT players who have the opportunity to play in top leagues in Europe should do so, and if there are positions where the USMNT doesn't have options with those opportunities, that's a problem. Walker Zimmerman proved to be a workable stopgap but you'd have rather had a fit and in form John Brooks with his head on straight, such is life.

    MLS should use its investment to improve on the field and build self-reinforcing mechanisms of adding good players, regardless of player nationalities.

    These are two independent entities with different interests from one another. Let both pursue those interests.

    The only thing MLS could do that would hurt the USMNT is to abandon youth development, as they necessarily have a key role to play there. The opposite is happening, as MLS sees financial potential in tapping the American talent market and fears foreign clubs beating them to it. So we're good there.
     
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  17. Dan Loney

    Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 10, 2000
    Cincilluminati
    Club:
    Los Angeles Sol
    Nat'l Team:
    Philippines
    Hey, everyone remember those funny Landon Donovan commercials for the Mexican lottery? Where he says "It's easy to win in Mexico!" and the whole bar just looks at him like he's nuts?

    If you weren't happy with how Berhalter handled that last window, you're just not going to be happy. I don't know what else to tell you.
     
  18. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    It isnt just SUM and it is naive to think just because there isnt a contractual relationship between US Soccer and SUM that all of the pressure go away.

    I'd have also liked CCV to have gotten an opportunity before a few months before the WC. It is possible that we didn't need Zimmerman as a stop gap.

    While the two entities have different interests, but do share one.... Quality American players. The quality of MLS is always going to come down to American players unless they stop signing them. MLS didnt invest in American players for a long time. Also, let's not make it like MLS is focused on American players. Some teams are, but not clear how good they are at it and many just don't care.
     
  19. Fighting Illini

    Fighting Illini Member+

    Feb 6, 2014
    Chicago
    Well but here's the thing about MLS' improvement.

    Celtic is a better team than anybody in MLS. And when they play Rangers or in Europe they are competing against a higher caliber of competition than anybody in MLS, sometimes much higher. So CCV is getting a lot of exposure to a level of talent Walker Zimmerman isn't, that is a fact.

    However, on a week-in-week-out basis they are playing against teams in the Scottish league who are considerably worse than anybody in MLS. In terms of the median team, MLS is inarguably better. And the opposite was true 10 years ago. It has flipped.

    And so your point about the rest of the world improving faster isn't remotely true. The English Premier League is improving by leaps and bounds and zooming away from the rest of the world and the rest of its own domestic pyramid, particularly in the middle and bottom of the table. You have to be one of the elite clubs on earth to finish 9th in the Premier League now, it's crazy. But that is coming at the expense of EVERYBODY else. MLS is one of the few competitions that's strengthening on the planet, actually, and Scotland won't be the last league to go by the wayside.
     
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  20. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    #2595 Clint Eastwood, Dec 8, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2022
    No kidding.

    There are people who enjoy being miserable.

    They literally found no joy in the World Cup, because they're just overwhelmed with anger. About what? Anything and everything. They fabricate conspiracy theories to be angry about. Never mind there's no hint of evidence to support any of it. How can you reply to some of this stuff? They don't have any facts to support their side other than anger. Then they yell at us for not supporting their unfounded gossip.

    Its all sorta the BigSoccer version of QAnon.

    In this case Jay Berhalter is the mysterious force behind the scenes controlling everything! It can't possibly be USMNT legends Earnie Stewart and Brian McBride that have fully supported Gregg Berhalter as coach for years. There's a nefarious and unseen force that kept Gregg in place all of these years.
     
  21. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, I've been told Don Garber is the man behind the curtain. I mean, he's on some USSF Technical committees for god's sake!!!!
     
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  22. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know that MLS has a hard ceiling though. But the growth is going to take time. It may never be the EPL, but it could get to the point where it's the best league outside of the top 5 for instance.

    I think that it can surpass both Mexico and Argentina in the near future (especially with current inflation rate in Argentina approaching 100 percent). That's probably the short to medium term goal. After that the goal is to surpass Brazil and be best league in CONCACAF/COMNEBOL. The longer term goal is about being the best league outside of the top 5. All these things will take time, more investment, improvements, better youth development, etc. MLS already spends a good amount of money compared to alot of things and the youth development is going to continue to improve.

    It doesn't mean everything in MLS is perfect, but things are definitely trending the right way.
     
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  23. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    These are two separate topics. Wamting to CCV play more with the USMNT has nothing to do with the leagues they play in or strengths/weaknesses of those leagues. It is simply does CCV give the usmnt a better chance to win.

    When I pointed out that others were getting better faster, I was referring to national teams. Concacaf has fallen off while some Asian and African countries have improved. When we are behind as much as we are it isnt good enough to be improving. We have have to improve more than those in front of us. The MLS players on the usmnt in 2022 are no better than any in the past and likely one of the worst bunches ever.
     
  24. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    One last thing on this. MLS is "better" than bottom half of the table Scottish teams, but CCV has a lot more pressure to perform. Long was crap all year and NYRB fans defended him the whole way. Zimmerman didn't play down the stretch. Where was the talk about his form. It less surprising that Zimmeramn gave up a PK and how he did if you consider he gave up two PKs in the last couple months of the season. One was for an unnecessary reckless challenge. He gave the ball away a lot just like he did in Qatar.
     
  25. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    I read through a painful discussion about pro/rel on here the other day. What was clear is that MLS fans don't understand it and there only concerns are about Bilionaires bank accounts. Go educate yourself and then I will provide an answer.
     

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