Three reasons: 1. No U.S. Men's Game 2. Invesco no 3onger brand-new 3. We started the season looking like the Dallas Burn However this is the second season in a row that the Rapids have been in the top 2 in attendance, and 4th season in a row that they have been in the top half of the league. I think it's time to put to rest the theory that "Rapids fans only show up for fireworks." Jason
I'd add that (and I'm too lazy to look it up. Sue me.) that Colo has removed the stains of those 4 and 5K attendances.
Re: Re: Final Attendance Report What are they supposed to do? Apologise? Why? KC absolutely deserved the critisism it got when its attendance was abysmal. It's attendance was abysmal after all. Now it's attendance is fine...good even, so no more critisism. Funny how that works.
Probably. I think part of the problem was that DC was crap for the first half of the season. Last Saturday, with the playoffs on the line we had nearly 20,000 show up. If/when Adu starts playing for DC, there will be a spike in attendance that could result in an overall increase depending on how well and how much he plays. Even without Adu, if DC puts out a quality side, more fans will show. This was our first time in the playoffs in 4 years, so that tells you the quality of the product we have been seeing.
..... Stupidity Wow, when trying to insult someone, you proved you live up to your claim! Congratulations! I’m willing to bet that you did not realize that Boston was the hardest hit in the country by the downfall of the economy in 2001 / 2002. There was at one point this year a 20% unemployment rate… But I guess since you’re an idiot that means nothing when it comes to getting fans to buy tickets to the game, congratulations. Go to the rev’s boards here and look at the threads about attendance. You will see many times over the reason that long time Revs fans are not going to the games is they either lost there jobs, or lack of money. Before you go insulting people you should do your homework so you do not prove to end up being exactly what you claim others to be. That in itself makes you look like twice the a$$.
As a United season ticket holder, I like to make the comment that DC United's attendance is pretty darn good considering the absolute crappy play over the last 4 YEARS. If and when DC has a solid side that really starts putting wins together look for a substantial increase in attendance. I also think that in DC at least, the WUSA with the Freedom had a negative impact on United's attendance.
Re: ..... Really? You know it seems to me that there are a series of threads on the Revs boards criticizing the front office. If I remember correctly, your cheap-ass owner merged the Revs front-office with the Patriots in order to save money. PROBLEM is that all the soccer people are out, and as a result the football people don't know how to market the sport. Why don't you look at that before you spew out garbage and vitriol for no apparent reason. So if that is true (not even questioning your figures, although a 20% unemployment figure is increbly high, and I have not seen that ANYWHERE), then why haven't other sports in Boston suffered just as much? Why isn't Fenway only 80% filled instead of it's normal 105% capacity? Why is that? Or the Patriots for that matter. How on Earth do they sell out all there games at the overpriced Gillette? You can't be telling me that the only people in the Boston metro area who were harmed by the economic downturn were Revs fans? Now, I have no doubt that people were affected by the economic downturn. The fact remains that there was a major overhaul of the front office, and I think that is the cause of this year's attendance, and not solely the economic downturn as you say.
And the point.. The point being that New England fans are stupid for what reason again? what was the reason for the insult? Front office, economy, The Vietnam war, what was the excuse once again to call some of the most dedicated fans in this entire country to be called stupid? Regardless, with the Rev's having a good year this year, and the economy fixing itself.. not to mention the flux in attendance (if you look at the numbers since 1998) will go back up this year.
Re: And the point.. Why you guys are dense? Case number 1 GRADY Little. You guys fired an incredible manager who has done better with your team then you have in a decade or so. The fans are hypercritical about nothing. I pray that he becomes the bench coach of the Yankees. Maybe the term stupid was a little too harsh. You didn't answer any of my points though. You specifically said that there is a direct correlation between the Revs attendance and the local economy. The pitiful economy according to you, was the only reason for the drop. What the hell was your point then?
Hmm, Simply put, I never said it was "the only" reason. That was the only reason that I mentioned in my post. Does that mean since I only posted one reason I belive it was the only reason? No of course not, but I believe it had the biggest impact. About 2 months back, the Boston Globe reported either 16 or 20% unemployment in the state, that is where I got my numbers from, As for Grady.. I have mixed feelings about him. Im pissed because every single person I watched the game with was yelling at the top of there lungs to take Pedro out. At the same time, He did get us there. But.. not really a big deal, we are often in the playoffs, and we screw it up. In "99" we went to the ALCS and lost, Grady isnt the person who shelfed out the 5th largets payroll in baseball to get there.
Re: Hmm, Well that's sure what it looked like in your original post. I'll look for that statistic. I doubt it over the summer even more, because a lot of migrant workers find jobs in Western Mass for the summer season, etc. I think the statistic you are referring to could be unemployment amongst teenagers in Massachusetts, because I did remember seeing something like that. The Massachusetts unemployment level though is 5.8% still better then the national average. As for taking Pedro out, what would have happened if he had done that, and then Embree screwed up? "Why would you take Pedro out, etc." would be the immediate reaction. He made the right decision. You stick with you best pitcher in that situation, especially because your bullpen has SUCKED for the whole season.
... uh, not wholly right here, if you want to compare apples to apples... If you're going to remove D from the '03 stats, then you need to do the same for '02 in order to have a valid comparison. Thus, the '02 tally for the "rest of the league" jumps to 16,122. Not quite as close as you thought, huh?
Attendance is really a work in progress. As the league becomes more settled, then valid comparisons can be made. Each year has unique reasons why attendance fluctuates. Overall, the league has done well to consolidate the gains they have made the last few years.
You know, I dont give a crap what the excuses are for other teams. The economy has been down for a couple years now all over the country. Its not just one area, although I'll admit some are hit harder than others. One very valid point is what the front offices are doing. Proof is in results, correct. NE unloads all the soccer people and lets the football people do the work. Result: attendance dropping at an alarming rate. KC has a full soccer staff and add football man #1 (Lamar Hunt) to help out. Result: a 25% increase in average attendance. The DCU fan has a very good point that they have been very consistant in attendance, and only slightly dropping off after 4 terrible years. Now, in the playoffs, is the time to turn the trend and head back up. NE fans might be handcuffed by the FO, but that doesn't mean those people aren't out there that have attended games that aren't. Contact the FO and let them know (maybe you are, I dont follow your situation). My two biggest beefs are Metros and San Jose. Metros have a HUGE population to pull from. As one poster said, how hard is it to get on a bus and catch the game? Metros barely outdrew KC this year, despite having virtually 10 times the amount of people within the same travelling distance to the games. Pitiful if you ask me, but I'm sure some NYer will jump down my throat, and give me some lame ass midwesterner jokes that I've heard 100 times. (at least thats what happens in every other conversation with many of them) San Jose, I'm still confused by. Is it the beach? Is it the FO? Is it just a bad place for soccer? Its not like you dont have stars (Donovan) or a successful team. I truly think that this leagues attendance can top 18,000 by the end of the 2005 season.The keys to making this happen: -Continued success in KC, Colorado, Columbus and LA. Can't let the good numbers of recent years start to drop off too much -Frisco has to get back the Cotton Bowl fans. The novelty of a new stadium will wear thin quick if a large core of fans (LATINOS) are not re-found and convinced to attend. -San Diego and ?????? expansion. One would assume (lets hope) that the first season would be high attendace. Take that and run with it. -Chicago was great in their last two games. Surely Soldier won't get that many next year will they? I would doubt it. But then they plan on moving. A good job of staying close to the fan base core and making sure they follow the team to the new home is key. -NE needs to get back on track. Is the only way to convince Kraft that he needs soccer people? If so, get Garber on the phone to Kraft ASAP. -DC, NY have always put up decent numbers. Its now time for them to see KC's lead and push the limits. I absolutely see no reason why NY couldnt average 20,000 per game (noon Wednesday games not included ) DC needs a winning team again, they've suffered too long.
masterklh wrote: "About 2 months back, the Boston Globe reported either 16 or 20% unemployment in the state, that is where I got my numbers from..." Your numbers are incorrect: Massachusetts Jobless Rate Unchanged By Robert Gavin, The Boston Globe 19 July 2003 Copyright (C) 2003 KRTBN Knight Ridder Tribune Business News Jul. 19--"The Massachusetts economy added jobs for the third consecutive month in June, and the jobless rate remained unchanged from May, the Division of Employment and Training reported yesterday. The state's unemployment rate stood at 5.6 percent in June, the same as the upwardly revised May rate, while payrolls grew by another 5,500 jobs, following gains of 7,900 in May and 5,900 in April..." Get your facts straight next time. Here are some inescapable ones: New England Revolution Avg. Home Attendance: 1996-2003 2003: 14,641 2002: 16,927 2001: 15,654 2000: 15,463 1999: 16,735 1998: 19,188 1997: 21,423 1996: 19,025 The figure for 2003 marks the second largest drop in team history, and marks a difference of almost 7,000 fans per match from their best year in 1997. That being said, it has been argued that the number for 2003 is for tickets sold, with crowds at matches often considerably below the avg. reported. The trend has been discussed for months by Revolution supporters as the season's gone on, reasons and/or explanations centered on the following: * Increase in costs across the board in terms of concession prices, tickets, and parking - the latter also affected by a new policy that saw lots open two, rather than three hours prior to every match. * A massive shake-up in the 2002 Revolution front office that saw a number of key staff laid off towards the end of last season, this a cost-cutting/consolidation move that has seen more of the front office operations shifted towards the Patriots side of the organization. As a result, team marketing efforts have changed both in their scope and their variety. * Early start times (4:00PM) directly conflict with a good number of youth soccer leagues, individuals associated with them indicating tickets often go un-used or requested because kids are still playing right up until or past the 4:00PM kick-offs. That being understood, an analysis of attendance numbers demonstrate that better crowds have turned up for the earlier starts rather than ones at 6:00PM. Having been a season ticket-holder for a number years and having gone to a majority of matches each year since 1996, I think I can offer one other reason: * No matter the Revs recent success, this is a team that up until a year ago had one of, if not the worst record of any club in MLS. The sheer futility of the teams along with several questionable management decisions have left many former supporters jaded, lot of fan favorite players were cast off, fans have borne the brunt of over-zealous stadium security efforts... the fans have gotten precious little return on what they've invested into the team. A lot of people I once saw regularly at games don't show up anymore. Even the numbers for the two primary Revolution supporters groups (Midnight Riders, Rev Army) are down - probably half what they were at their peak. How these numbers are being viewed by the Krafts and Revolution front office remain to be seen. The numbers show that under the right circumstances and marketed the right way, there are a ready amount of fans willing to show up. The question is in getting them back. It's not a bad soccer market, anything but. However, both the Revolution and Major League soccer need to take a long, hard look to get a better handle on what the problem is. Something is not being done right. If the Krafts keep their heads buried in the sand then who knows where the future of the franchise lay. The Magpie
One interesting thing for me is whether Garber and the Board of Governors (or whoever they're called) will challenge Kraft to try to "stem the tide" and put some effort back into the soccer side of things. Without some encouragement, I'm not sure the Krafts themselves will take any action (from what I can gather).
I'm going to assume you have not watched a lot of MetroStars matches this season. I think this low attendance is in large part to the quality/style of play. They are not an entertaining side. Mathis' play has been on donward slope, thus robbing the team of any identity or buzz. To put this product out in this market (one that is savy about soccer) is not a good thing. You may think I'm being a NYC snob, but that is the flipside to the NYC coin: yes there are a lot of soccer fans here, and it cuts both ways. I would even go so far as to say that even if the team goes deep into the playoffs, they have taken a step back re: the growth of its fanbase. "Bradleyball" this year has been as dull as sh't-period. The only thing you have to cling to is the result; the soccer is crap. The other thing to note, is that unlike years past, we did not have the usual DH's. (Fieldturf?)
I don't think you're being a NY snob. Quite nice post actually. I agree that its hard to draw for a "boring" team. But KC has increased every year since 1998 and we were widely accepted as the most boring team in MLS for at least three of those seasons. But my main point was that NYs attendance is good. Its not flatlining like NE's, and thats a good thing. What I was trying to say is that in an area where the organization literally has millions upon millions to draw from I'd think they could get to the 20,000 standard with the right marketing approach.
This is important, but I think Harrison will be an even bigger deal for NY/NJ fans than HDC will be for LA or another SSS for the average MLS team. NY fans have such a predisposed hatred of looking like suckers or rooting (at least publically) for something that is second-rate that they must hate (even more than the average fan) looking around at a sparsely attended Giants Stadium and feel like they are part of something shabby. If the ticket isn't a hot/desirable item - it just doesn't rate in NYC. I bet that Harrison could result in an attendance average of 27,000 within a year or two of being built if the Metros were even competitive (i.e. three or four years a row in the playoffs with at least one trip to the finals/two trips to the semis) simply because the Metro fans would be able to lay claim to the best stadium (and what they would immediately call the best atmosphere) in the league. I bet they would even bear high ticket prices like a badge of honor (just like they do their high cost of living, traffic problems, other inconveniences that they love to go on and on about). It will gall them to no end if the capacity is not at least a couple thousand greater than any other SSS, though. NYC rule . . . unless there are a bunch of scalpers selling tickets to the game, its not really worth going to (ESC members aside)
Couldn't agree more. With the worst home record in the league (excluding Dallas), it's been difficult to create any momentum among new fans or those that may have attended in years' past. I've brought 10-15 new & former fans to the Swamp this year, only to have the Metros lose every single time. Other than a burst of success in April/May, the team has been a loser on the field. When you're trying to endear yourself to the public, consistently losing at home doesn't help. As for Metro marketing, all I have to say is "good luck."
Don't even mention "beach" and Northern California. They all SUCK. Good surf, but the water's arctic, the "summer" is a frickn' Canadian winter w/ all the fog, and "fall" is actually more like the summer: stunning weather!! There is no "California beach culture" per se. San Luis Obispo on south is where the California beach culture resides. It's the FO that keeps SJ's attendance down. Just a rant from a SoCal transplant.
I've never even set foot in California, I was just wondering. What is it about the FO then? Is it possible for any of the fans to involve themselfs and/or help the FO? One thing we have in KC is a "Curt Johnson Q&A with the Mystics". Now I know theres no real supporters section (Sorry Ultras, you dont count yet) to organize something like this. But there has to be a few public and or outspoken fans that could get together and speak with the GM, marketing, etc.? If not, do they even care about the organization they run?
Re: Re: Final Attendance Report Mainly, the organization has gone through 4 of the last 5 offseasons of its existence with its management/operating status in limbo. So we end up with situations like this year's when the season's advertising campaign didn't start until June. You really don't know what you're talking about.