Yes really. The premier league has the worlds attention and they are the ones that are dragging VAR through the ringer. And the World Cup didn’t do it that way either. It was the same as MLS.
When referees complain to a Coach Admin that I know, about a coach's behavior, the first thing he asks them is "well, did you card the coach?" We have the tools folks.
But the World Cup did use technology/lines. It just didn’t show the drawing of them and it was a single tournament with about 60 matches, so—luckily—there weren’t any memorable egregious examples. I’m at a loss here. This is factual. Every major league uses lines. Just because you might be more focused on EPL than La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, etc., doesn’t make them the only culprit. People watch those other leagues, too. And they were all doing it before the EPL. If you want to say the EPL has done particularly bad at implementing and applying VAR, you get no argument from me. But to say or imply they are the ones getting offside wrong without acknowledging they are essentially doing it just like everyone else (except MLS) seems to miss the mark. It’s also worth noting, at this point, that the lack of lines has led to three factually incorrect offside decisions in MLS. So, this could be a case of “be careful what we wish for.”
You’re claiming in the 2018 World Cup they were using the line technology to make the offside decisions? Is there any evidence to back this up? I’m honestly asking because after a quick google search and my memories of the cup it didn’t seem that way. Everything pretty much mirrored the MLS implementation and as I recall basically the US referees lead the way in VAR teaching and implementation. So it would surprise me they would throw that curve ball in only months after having all this started. And to be clear when you say “factual” do you mean that other leagues do what EPL does or that offside is “factual” because on the former I’ll agree but the latter not so much. The VAR protocol is not any different for offside than the other times where it is used. Which still defaults to “clear and obvious”. And if we’re having to use anything beyond the video itself to review the play, it doesn’t meet that standard. Are you saying that out of all the offside decisions that VAR has intervened in since 2017 there have been three confirmed to be wrong. I think that’s a perfectly acceptable result. But to sum it all up, yes I’m pointing the finger squarely at the EPL because despite them undoubtedly not wanting to be the focal point for the worlds perception of VAR, they are. Their popularity and ability to reach a world wide audience has made their poor use of VAR the reality or how it is being perceived. Whether or not that’s how it actual exists in every league on the planet doesn’t matter. The program is being lambasted because of what they are doing.
Also there were no American VARs at the World Cup. Though Geiger snd Marrufo did get time in the VOR, in no way whatsoever did Americans “lead the way” in 2018.
And as to the rest of your post, I don’t have time to go through it all right now. A lot of this is rehashing stuff has already been discussed. But, no, I was saying three (all outcome-relevant) offside decisions have been given incorrectly in MLS this season.
I thought I remember them showing PR videos where Geiger and Maruffo were being used to help with the VAR because at that point they were some of the few with experience with it.
Probably. But the PR is a lot to do with them speaking English well and being able to explain it. Go back and look at the stats for assignments. They were used. But minimally compared to Vigliano, Irrati and Makkelie, among others. And even to this day, Marrufo is not that experienced as a VAR—he barely does it domestically.
I think this is the video I’m remembering which to be fair is PRO production so heavily weighted to make them look good but Joe Fletchers comments are probably what I’m remembering. https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/mark-geiger-works-video-assistant-referee-argentina-iceland-draw
Good to know. At the end of the day the original comment I responded to was that EPL fans aren’t very big on VAR. And I think we all know why. Which was my point in saying “premier league” was the key to the statement. While not everyone is a fan of VAR the world over, I can’t say I hear nearly the complaints from fans of other leagues as I do the ones focusing on EPL.
Not sure how that's measured. Lines work with goal line technology and in sports like tennis and volleyball because you're talking about a single definable moment. Did the ball hit/cross the line or not? You can measure that with astounding accuracy. They do NOT work with offside calls because there are two related moments, and one is difficult to define. When is a ball "struck" if you're going frame-by-frame? When the foot makes contact? When the ball leaves the foot? Those two moments may not seem to be so far apart, but when you're drawing a line that's supposed to show you a snapshot of what happens at the precise millisecond, well, when do you draw that line? Save VAR for "clear and obvious."
I’m not arguing the merits of the lines. The debate was over whether or not the EPL invented or was the only major league using lines.
FIFA defines the point at which the foot makes contact in fifa tournaments, so there, at least, there is a definable frame.
I still think that's difficult to determine from a replay -- at least to the precision we pretend we have for the drawn-on lines. You'd also really need to have two camera angles synced up to show the same instant. I'd rather just leave it to the ARs unless it's clear and obvious. The more we persist in drawing a bunch of mythical lines and taking a couple of minutes to make a dubious call, the longer we delay acceptance of what could and should be a valuable tool.
This is a false issue. I’ve seen a frame rate of between 50 ( BS pundits) and 120 ( Fifa literature) frames per second, and multiple cameras, presumably not exactly synced, taking the pictures. I find the 50 FPS rate difficult to process, since my now ancient iPhone 11 can do 60 FPS all day long, the tech republic website tell us an iPhone 6 will also do that frame rate, though I have never owned one. Maybe the EPl needs to upgrade their cameras to iPhone 6’s. Even buying one decent high frame camera is cheaper than a box seat at a Manu match. If they are indeed shooting at such low frame rates the problem is a lot worse than video technology. You can’t stupid proof the EPL. if you go to any website that has information of the human eye, the numbers that get returned are between 30 and 60 FPS, many experts aren’t convinced the higher number is real, which makes some sense if you consider that Star Trek movies Star Trek, deep space 9, voyager, etc were shot at a uniform 23.97 FPS and you can’t tell. So whatever the shortcomings of video technology, your eye is worse, especially when you are running the sideline and your eyeball is bouncing around in your skull. and what you think you see on the boob tube is worse yet, since is filtered by two less than perfect technologies.