Yes Centre Forwards used to be better or more accurately there used to be more of them because of the way player profiles were trained. You can't do the numbers game because Haaland and Kane have played on teams that are machines that have a huge advantage over their opponents. Again look at Kanes numbers since joining Bayern. This is why for me Ronaldo at Real is overrated. It was seen as an anomaly but now we see Kane Haaland Mbbape do similar things in a similar situation. You also have to adjust for eras. There were fewer goals in the 90s for many reasons. When you adjust for era it makes a lot more sense. It's not a one for one. This is why Ronaldo O fenomeno's run from 17-25 was so incredible. The eye test shows us he was maybe the best CF ever and the numbers do too despite his career falling apart due to injuries and personal issue afterwards. Rule changes overtime began to favour attackers. What was once a yellow is now a multi game suspension. There are not a lot of top quality Centre Forwards now. Lewandowski Benzema were able to hold on for a really long time at the top level because of this. But this is also because the inside forward replaced the traditional winger..most attackers these days are inside forwards/inverted wingers. Kane would have been a top CF in any era. There are not a lot of players of his profile at the moment. Germany have not had a top class CF since Klose and he was trained and raised in Poland. Brazil have lacked a CF since Adriano. Spain we don't even need to mention. Portugal have always lacked CFs but they would now kill to have a Pauleta or Nuno Gomes. Netherlands always had a Van Basten Kluivert Van Nisterlroy Van Persie and now nothing.
I've always believed that elite strikers are born rather than trained. It's why Barcelona can churn out technical midfielders and wide players, but not a true centre forward. You can nurture someone's natural talent into those positions, but you can't develop the instincts that the very best strikers possess.
It's a good point. Wenger said years ago that the death of the european CF was because europeans are no longer hungry/desperate. it may be a bit romantic but we have seen more and more CFs and attackers emerge from non traditional nations over time.
Finishing with a clear mind is a natural ability some players have it but not many also the striker is used as a press machine these days and runs into channels or comes deep it’s not like back in the day
Mourinho's Chelsea were probably one of the first top teams to operate that way with Drogba. Yes, he had a couple of great goalscoring seasons but he averaged 13 league goals a season. They had Lampard scoring from midfield, and wide forwards who got their share as well. Drogba held the formation together though.
for sure its more difficult in many ways. its no secrets that PSG are better with Dembele as their CF who presses than they were with Mbappe who did not. goals can be shared on player scoring in bulk is not necessarily an advantage. but I do think we will see a comeback of the traditional hold up CF target man albeit a modern pressing version.
One thing to say on this - it's not just the finishing that makes an elite striker. The best strikers miss plenty of chances. If you look across the top five leagues, the players in 1st, 2nd and 4th place for big chances missed are Haaland, Mbappe and Kane (and Haaland is comfortably ahead of them all). It's just as much about getting into the right positions time and time again. Anticipating where they need to be is just as important, and this is the skill that can't really be trained. I can remember a goal Haaland scored a couple of years ago where he played for a potential deflection - a cross was coming in and it looked like the defender was going to get there first, but on the stretch. Haaland stopped his run to play for the potential half clearance, and ended up scoring - the time for reacting to this was minimal.
What makes kane more remarkable is he can set an attack off from midfield with a 60 yard pass then find himself on the end of a cross by finding space. Lewandowski or mbappe can't do that
I'm glad tuchel is staying on because as long as kane is fit, tuchel will pick him. Had a new manager come in after the world cup I could imagine him trying to set a precedent ala mclaren with Beckham by not picking him just to show everyone he's in charge
But they aren't. You're looking at just goals and not realizing that Ronaldo is not just lauded for his goals but because those goals directly gave them 4 Champions League in 5 years, including an unprecedented 3-peat when no team did 2. Ronaldo also at 23 won a Ballon D'Or against Messi, whereas all the players you listed are at least 25 and have not yet won a Ballon, against easier competition since none of them are prime Messi. You can think he's overrated but general consensus does not agree with you. There is a reason most rankings of all time (including Bigsoccer's very own @Dearman) have him as the #1 European player of all time. There isn't some grand conspiracy you've found out. You're calling a player that won his club 4 CL in 5 years, as the undisputed talisman, overrated which is, frankly, ridiculous.
And then they won two more CL after he left. I meant to write a tad overrated which I did in my first post and I am not talking about his legacy in football but just his pure goal scoring record at Real Madrid. The idea that he did something that will never be matched. I think we all thought we will never see this again. To me the sheer volume was partially circumstantial but you must understand I am saying this to say you can't simply play the on the surface numbers game. Kane has a goal per shot conversion rate of 22% with a goal roughly every 4.5 shots where Cristano has a 12.9% conversion rate with a goal at roughly every 6.5 shots. I am only talking about goalscoring here. I have Ronaldo in my all time world 11 as a LWF though between him and Cruyff it is hard. No need to defend Ronaldo as an all time great.
Stones was really good in midfield when your club Manchester City beat Inter to win the Champions League. Is that based on O'Reilly struggling in the Bernabéu? Do you think Quansah would've still gone if Ben White hadn't got injured?
Ghana squad. Includes five goalkeepers. When you cut them down to three it becomes a 26 player squad -
Wanted to read what everyone had to say and gather my thoughts about the squad after a few days of pondering. I recall back to Euro 2024 about the terrible balance the squad had despite the amount of star players England had. It was ugly and unsatisfying to win the way we did (I felt kinda bad for Slovakia because they deserved to beat England). Balance and talent are the two most valuable things to have and England have both. Tuchel prioritizes balance over stars and has shown that he won't cave to what the media wants. I think most of us respect that. I'm actually quite excited about the wing play prospects especially with Tuchel brining in Madueke over Bowen: a speedster who stretches defenses with his 1-on-1 ability. Him Rashford, Saka, and Gordon fit what Kane needs in order to flourish, which is having fast wingers to feed through balls and play off him. That's why the Kane/Saka/Sterling trio worked so well from 2018-2022. Tuchel has a certain tactical system and he's going to try to get the best possible balance out of it which means there's a good chance he'll get the team playing to its potential. Are there risks involved with this? No question. The likes of Burn and Henderson make no sense as far as squad depth is concerned, but they're very good teammates which can go a long way. Tuchel seems quite keen on maintaining the good vibes Southgate helped bring in and harness to his everlasting credit. Like @Wendigo7 and @TorontoCalabria have stated in various ways, England has a very good squad with a potentially world class starting XI we think Tuchel will select. On paper, you have the best striker in the world in Harry Kane, one of the best midfields England may have ever brought to a major tournament to date with Bellingham, Rice, and Anderson, then a solid defense including Reece James who might be the best right back in the world. That all has me surprisingly very optimistic and excited for the World Cup. It's also not so bad when the expectations go down and some pressure gets taken off. That worked well for England in 2018. I'm getting those same vibes again except all it'll take is one good performance and then England are world beaters again... Let's hope that's the case!
[QUOTE="TorontoCalabria, post: Germany have not had a top class CF since Klose and he was trained and raised in Poland.[/QUOTE] Klose came to Germany as an 8 year old. Playing a couple of years in the Polish toddlers league won't turn you into the World Cup's alltime top scorer.
Wise words. Yeah, l'm looking forward to seeing what an impact Tuchel can once he gets to spend some serious time on the training pitch drilling these players. Let's hope we can finally confine all the tactical inflexibility and unwillingness to make mid-game changes, that we saw with the previous regime, to the history books. If we can see more clever set-ups, like the double wingers we deployed against Serbia (high and wide full-backs supporting forwards who cut inside and make runs beyond Kane) then I've got real grounds for optimism.
Great Post. At first I was furious with the squad but over time ive come to appreciate how balanced it looks. We have wide players with pace which kane thrives off rather than shoehorning the likes if foden in there. The midfield is settled. Unlike 2 years ago when Southgate inexplicably decided at the last minute to experiment with trent in there. The whole team looks like a well oiled cog. I don't rate our squad depth but hopefully we won't have to use them much
I have no problems at all with Tuchel´s attacking selections (though would have chosen MGW over Rogers but that´s not important in the grand scheme of things. I think his selection is severly lacking in balance in midfield and defense though which I´m pretty sure will be costly in the knockouts.
As I’ve said O’Reilly will be given a lot of leeway by fans and the press because the other options Spence. Livramento and Burn are not massively popular. . If Hall or Shaw was there things would be different.
A lot of leeway? Hes a young player in basically a new position who’s just won Young Player of the Year, anything others than minor criticism of him would be completely unjustified.
'MADNESS': Thomas Tuchel hammered by German media over his World Cup squad - with claims England boss will regret leaving out 'exceptional' players Cole Palmer, Phil Foden and Trent Alexander-Arnold https://t.co/eQg0dBgv6P— Daily Mail (@DailyMail) May 26, 2026