FIFA World Cup 2026: England Tournament Thread [R]

Yes so far the same pattern of 2018/2020/2022/2024 has been seen here where England have struggled to beat teams they are favourites against but have found a way to do so almost always through an individual moment of class from Jude/Kane and in the past Saka.

If England just straight up lose to Argentina say 2-1 then we can't really say a step forward was taken. This is the match where this generation needs to escape the merely very good tag and enter the category of great teams that are contending for championships in this window. Usually there are only 2/3 teams that truly contend in a certain window. Sometimes only one true contender makes the final.

The distance between winning the world cup and losing a semi final is often as large as losing in the quarters and winning the world cup. It can be nice to make a run in the moment but getting to finals is what it is all about. Get to enough finals and one will go your way. Germany 82 86 90 is a good analogue.

 

It's really more of a 2024 onwards development. People might have thought we were "boring" in 2018/2020/2022 knock out games (which is really overstated and based on people not liking Southgate) but we were really very good at beating "weaker" teams and controlled pretty much all those games, they weren't really struggles. Look through the list:

England 1-1 Colombia (England win on penalties)
England 2-0 Sweden
England 2-0 Germany
England 4-0 Ukraine
England 2-1 Denmark
England 3-0 Senegal

We conceded barely any in those runs against "weaker" (not sure i'd class Germany as that either) teams. We were very good at shutting them down, keeping possession, and usually creating a few high quality chances a game to win them. Far more system than individual based. In the last two tournaments we've conceded in every knock out game, and conceded first in 6/7 of those games.

 

We've got some big talents coming through but from say 98-04 groups there was a huge volume of talents coming through rather than just a few names. That means you're better placed to deal with unfulfilled potential and injury prone players. It might the case that JJ, Rio and Dowman all become world superstars but by the same token all three might disappoint.

 

This third place match is in Miam similar conditions to the England-Norway game, I can’t imagine which ever 2 teams that play this match well be playing full strength/at full tilt.

 

Yep, I won't be watching the 'loser's final' regardless of who is in it. Just another money grabbing exercise. They should let homeless people in for free for the 3rd place game.

 

Do we actually have less though? Just as an attacking comparison, If I look at the '07's-'09s you could put together Ngumoha, Dowman, Mheuka, Derry, McAidoo, Monga, Moore, Howell, Heskey, Kavuma-Mcqueen. I'm not sure at all i'd have said '97-'99 had a better comparative list of attackers or stronger depth at the same ages (centre forwards only, perhaps).

As you say its a numbers game but i'm not sure we are down on numbers. Certainly in attacking talent. Central midfielders is perhaps a different story.

 

Yes and I think based on your above points about cycles and margins. Southgate (often) gets unfairly judged for his time as England coach. But a lot of that comes from your avg football fan not giving much thought to the context of cycles and teams peaking during certain windows etc.

IMO, most of the Southgate negativity still stems from losing the penalty shootout in the final of 2021. But what a lot of people miss is the team England had in 2018-2020 was very different to the one he had during 2022-2024.

Southgate is the first coach in my lifetime to manage England through more than one cycle (Hodgson had just over one, 1.5 you could argue). And Southgates 1st cycle was very different to the 2nd. His 1st cycle was basically Catenaccio (+ younger Kane & Sterling).

Then during the 2nd cycle, was when we saw real evidence of structural change where England teams could increasingly get through tournament adversity, could survive adverse game states and control matches for long periods (regardless of the score). 2nd cycle also crossed the threshold in ability to go behind in a knockout game before coming back to win the tie, beating big football nations away from home etc. But all this was only realistic, because Southgate had the player profiles to do so which weren't there during his first cycle

I'm convinced that if Southgate had only managed the one cycle with the players he had between 2022-24, he would be remembered a lot more positively and even given at least another tournament.

 

Is people's views on tuchel getting the sack if we don't reach the final, based on anything? Because I Think it's a real achievement to get this far. We're not France Brazil Germany Argentina Italy etc where we have history of getting this far or is it based on the quality of our players that people demand success? I don't think we're at that level YET where we should be turning our noses up at a semi final in a world cup

 

He played there against Norway too, but Tuchel took him back to right back after cca 20 minutes.

 

I thought he was excellent there against Croatia

 

I do think it's really unreliable to determine the quality of English prospects by England youth team results alone.

Our tournament results at U17-U20 level have declined notably but that's also coincided with us winning two U21 Euros on the spin, which is entirely contradictory if we use tournament results as the sole marker of quality.

Prior to Carsley we got grouped at the U21 Euros two tournaments in a row, firstly with a squad containing players like Konsa, Foden, Mount, MGW, Maddison & Solanke while the second squad had the likes of Guehi, Eze, Curtis Jones, Conor Gallagher, Hudson-Odoi (pre-injury), Smith-Rowe (pre-injury) etc.

I don't think the players got dramatically better in the following two tournaments, what changed is we replaced Aidy Boothroyd with Lee Carsley. I don't think we win either of the last two tournaments without him, especially not last summer's.

There's a lot that contributes to tournament results and it's a rehashed conversation on here, but so many decisions that are made in England age group fail to give our players the best chance of succeeding.

Just as a small example: Cole Palmer, James Trafford, Harwood-Bellis and Noni Madueke were all knocked out of the 2019 U17 Euros in the group stage, yet all went on to win the U21 Euros with Carsley and claim senior England caps.

 

The pecking order for covering the Rice role has been Bellingham then James. Against Croatia that was fine, since England was leading. Against Norway (when Bellingham had the role in the second half until James came on) it was a mistake is we only had a draw, and Bellingham was needed to score goals from his Nr. 10 position. Hopefully, if Rice is not fit Tuchel will use James first. I don't think anyone else than a fit Rice can play that role for more than 45 minutes, so multiple players will be needed.

 

I don't think Tuchel should be sacked. I think you can argue that pretty much every manager should be given two tournaments unless their first is a complete disaster.

My pushback on him comes from a feeling he's being excessively praised for things that a) Southgate never (or rarely) got recognition for and b) things that are far more the players' doing than his.

When you look at Southgate's entire tenure as England boss and not just 2024, I don't really see a big (or any) improvement yet but that's not being reflected in the popular discourse.

Even if we get knocked out on Wednesday I'm happy to give him two more years to prove himself but the jury will very much still be out imo. Equally if we win the thing then build him a statue and give him a passport.

 

I full agree with your post bar one small error - Hudson-Odoi was post his major injury at the 2021 U21 Euros.

 

If he wins the thing, we can make him heir to the throne for all I care.

The Royal family are all supposed to be Germans anyway..

 

It can vary. Some teams have taken it very seriously over the years but I feel like this year all 4 teams are the type to heavily rotate and use their bench options

 

I feel like the FA might already be planning to try and get him to extend to 2030 already and do a whole full cycle again.

 

Sweden have won the 3rd place match in the Women’s World Cup 4 times. As you say it is clearly an important match in Swedish football.

I remember the 2010 third place match between Germany and Uruguay and my dad moaning it had a late goal as it was so enjoyable another 30 minutes would have been very welcome.

 

Yeah, the problem is we were short at both that position and defensive cover in midfield.

 

I don't like the idea of KEEP sacking managers like some countries do. I think the guy needs to get to know the players for a period. As long as he's not there for too long, (particularly if he's not seeing any decent results), that seems fine to me.

Keeping GS around when he was getting into SF and finals is fair enough.

I'd say TT's getting us into a semi on his first showing is reasonable and deserves to be kept around.

I said to the yanks that their showing, getting into the last 16 when they're ranked 16th was a decent overall result, despite the poor last game. It was just that they'd probably over-performed in some of the games before that.

On that basis, with us being ranked 4th in the world and now being in the last 4, I don't see us as having much room to complain, even if, like the yanks, the performances have been a mixed bag.

 

Yes, fans have pointed the finger at him for a few goals, though the team as a whole was sh*te. More commonly the complaint with him is about reckless tackles that draw cards, although judging by the Egypt game that doesn't apply when wearing the albiceleste.

 

I think people need to lighten up a little bit. We are in the SF for only the fourth time, whether you like it or not we have not traditionally made it this far.

Yes, we haven't looked amazing, but has any team other than France really? We've had poor conditions in Miami, altitude and a home crowd in Mexico - I'd argue those two wins are massive in the context, people write off Mexico at home and altitude and Norway (who have had an incredible last two years) as straightforward games, but they were not at all.

Yes, Tuchel hasn't got this team clicking yet and some of his decisions are questionable, let's judge him on that IF we get knocked out and that will be a fair thing to criticise him for if that happens. So far I've only seen an improvement in his in game management compared to Southgate. A lot of us including me judged Southgate pretty harshly, because he didn't change games and waited too long to make substitutions.

I also think Tuchel was screwed over a bit with the lack of form of Foden, Palmer etc this year. Even Bellingham has been injured a lot of this season but has turned up and been one of the best players at this world cup, I have to give some credit to Tuchel because I think the way he managed the Rodgers/Jude debate probably fired him up.

 

Cristian Romero last 4 games: 0 Yellow cards. pic.twitter.com/eOmnQW314Y

— MadrispaniaTV (@MadrispaniaTV) July 14, 2026

How do you even explain this? Utterly obscene.

 

Being generous, there's four yellow cards in there. Realistically, almost all of them are.

 

You can see why people often jump to corruption.

I think it's likely more internalised bias than straight up corruption but the fact this has happened over multiple games with different referees shows there's a two-tier refereeing system with Argentina. At least when it comes to policing fouls.