Fifa to look at new format for Club World Cup

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by Nico Limmat, Feb 9, 2004.

  1. Oscar

    Oscar Member+

    Nov 30, 2001
    Holland
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Yeah, during the pre-season. If this cup will be played the same time as the Intercontinental Cup, then it will be during the season, and instead of being just 1 game there'll be two: during a crucial stage of the Champion's League, and during the league.

    I don't see how anybody could be happy about this Cup, not the Europeans and South Americans, or the other ones. How is this a 'real' world cup for clubs when you're already assuming from the start that the European and South American teams are better that you would give them a bye? Why not take it a step further and just let them play in the final, then the Intercontinental Cup wouldn't have to change it's name either.

    If the non-South Americans and Europeans are actually happy about this useless Cup, then it only shows they didn't really want a World Cup from the start, they just want to play against the big teams from Europe and South America. "Oh boy! We could possibly play against Manchester United! I've got Ruud Ruud Ruud's picture hanging over my bed, he's so dreamy! Orgasm!"

    Please.
     
  2. mr magoo

    mr magoo New Member

    Jul 19, 2002
    South Shields
    Can the African teams afford to fly to Japan or will they walk it?

    If this playes at the same time as the intercontinental Cup did then then it won't be worth sending over the the big names as they will all be too shagged to continue playing in their league when they get back.

    Do you really expect the European and South American clubs to put their domestic leagues and champions league and coppa libertadores in jeapordy by playin this tinpot comppetition? They'll end up sending a reserve team out at best a youth team out at the worst.
     
  3. El_Maestro

    El_Maestro Member

    Jun 5, 2002
    Planet Earth
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    The problem I have with this idea is not that FIFA is trying to create a worldwide tournament -they can do whatever they want- but that they want to scrap the Intercontinental Cup when they don't own it.

    Sure, I know that if the ICC keeps going, the fate of this new tournament is same of the old one: failure.

    I don't know what UEFA's take on this is gonna be, but Conmebol already sent a letter to UEFA opposing the disappearance of the ICC, as I read it in an Argentine newspaper:

    "Sería muy injusto renunciar a lo que hemos construido en forma conjunta la UEFA y la Conmebol y que ya forma parte de nuestra historia. Hoy tenemos un contrato firmado hasta el año 2006, pero independientemente de ello estoy seguro que tanto la Conmebol como la UEFA, aún sin el mismo, seguramente continuarán con su disputa"

    Pretty much says that it would be unfair to renounce to something built by UEFA and Conmebol together which is part of their history, and that even though they have a contract only through 2006, they want to continue playing it after that.

    In another paragraph Nicolas Leoz, Conmebol's president, says that they don't oppose to the creation of a World Club Championship by FIFA.

    "Nosotros somos solidarios y consideramos que debemos complacer a quienes tienen la intención de realizar el Campeonato Mundial de Clubes, como ya lo hemos hecho una vez".

    [​IMG]

    Copa Intercontinental For Ever
     
  4. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Really? When these vaunted teams start beating everyone else consistently, then you can talk.

    Until then:

    prove it on the pitch or stop your yakkin'

    G.
     
  5. Argentine Futbol

    Argentine Futbol Red Card

    Feb 21, 2003
    Old Greenwich, CT
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I Don't think they should replace the ICC. The Conmebol just sent a letter to Uefa stating that they will not negioate the ICC. They can still create a world club cup. But then you have to ask yourself if S.A or Euro clubs will send their best players?? Not in a millions years. Imagine Real madrid participating and having Ronaldo injured by so Noname players..Millions of $$$ down the drain. Same goes for S.A club which produces some of the worlds best talents.. They can built it but will we come???
     
  6. Argentine Futbol

    Argentine Futbol Red Card

    Feb 21, 2003
    Old Greenwich, CT
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Here's the actual letter:

    Señor
    Presidente de la UEFA
    Sr. Lennart Johansson
    Nyon - Suiza
    Querido amigo:

    [...] Con toda sorpresa en el día de hoy tomo conocimiento de una información de Prensa de la FIFA que te adjunto.
    En principio, quiero señalarte que a nuestra Copa Europeo/Sudamericana no estamos dispuestos a negociarla ni ampliarla tal como se señala en el comunicado. Siempre la hemos defendido y la venimos disputando ininterrumpidamente desde el año 1960 cada vez con mayor éxito.

    Hoy tenemos un contrato firmado hasta el año 2006, pero independientemente de ello, estoy seguro que tanto la CONMEBOL como la UEFA, aun sin el mismo, seguramente continuarán con su disputa.

    Nosotros somos solidarios y consideramos que debemos complacer a quienes tienen la intención de realizar un Campeonato Mundial de Clubes, pero de ninguna manera pensamos renunciar a lo que tenemos establecido y que ya forma una parte importante de nuestra historia.

    Esperando tus comentarios al respecto, te hago llegar un afectuoso abrazo.


    DR. NICOLÁS LEOZ
    Presidente
    CONMEBOL
    c.c.: Presidentes de las 10 Asociaciones Nacionales de la CONMEBOL
     
  7. SousaJP

    SousaJP New Member

    Feb 20, 2001
    Vienna, VA
    I couldn't agree with you more. This is an excellent solution to finally having a true world champion for club teams. The ICC has been played for over 40 years between the top teams from Europe and South America and it has been great. But now we're in the 21st century and there is nothing wrong with inviting the club champions from the other 4 confederations to play in this tournament. If the European and South American teams are so much better than the rest of the world (which they are), then the other games leading up to the final shouldn't really matter.
     
  8. SoccerScout

    SoccerScout Member

    Jan 3, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Club:
    Internacional Porto Alegre
    OK Based on most of the idiotic thinking on this board we should CANCEL THE WORLD CUP because Africa, Asia , North America cant compete with Eupoe and SA.
    So based on the thoughts of these hardcore ICC fans lets just have every 4 years a World Cup with ONLY countries in South America and Europe and we can call it the INTERCONTINENTAL CUP since everyone is in such love with this title! Or better yet, lets call it what it really is, Copa Toyota!


    And again, nobody dared to answer me...what happens if we stick to just Euro vs SA and then say MLS or the JLeague start creating Allstar teams like Real Madrid. Why wouldnt they be allowed to play for the best team in the world? Folks CLUBS can have foreigners so just because the club is based in the US or Australia doesnt mean they cant have the best players in the world or best team in the world! If anything a WCC will motivate teams outside of Europe and SA to build even better teams to compete for World Titles.

     
  9. simplysoccerBR

    simplysoccerBR New Member

    Feb 13, 2004
    Curitiba
    The groups would have to be formed in a way that South America and European clubs could only face each other in the final. Imagine how boring would be if real Madrid beat Santos in the semi-final and then play against Chicago Fire or something. Who would like to watch a desproportional game like this?
     
  10. pc4th

    pc4th New Member

    Jun 14, 2003
    North Poll
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    did you even read this THREAD?

    they will NEVER face each other in the semi-final because they each has a bye. One will be ranked #1 and the other #2.

    6 vs. 3
    4 vs. 5

    #1 will play the winner of higher seed (bigger #)
    #2 will play the winner of lower seed (smaller #)

    winner will play for the title of a true "WORLD CHAMPION"


    Finally, since I am not very well versed in international club football, if this competition is for the year 2003 (Dec 2003). Who would be the 6 teams?

    1) champion of Europe : Milan?
    2) champion of South American: Santos?
    3) champion of CONCACAF:
    4) champion of Asia:
    5) champion of Africa:
    6) champion of NZ/Australia/Oceania:

    Oh, the price would be along the these lines (FIFA has a surplus of over $100 million in 2003....just reported in the news)

    Winner and world champion: $5 mil
    Runner up: $2.3 mil
    3rd place: $1.2 mil
    4th place: $0.7 mil
    5th place: $0.5 mil
    6th place: $0.3 mil

    Total: $10 mil

    (SUM is expected to pay Real Madrid $4 mil for 2 exhibitions in the States. that will give a ballpark estimate) p.s how much does the winner of Toyota ICC get?)

    Now, if the Euro club champ and Libertadores Champ want to send their B team, I say let's them. It's not like $5 mil and the title of being the a world champion means anything. It's just change money and a useless title.
     
  11. Ronaldo+10

    Ronaldo+10 New Member

    Aug 20, 2003
    Los Angeles
    If they do start sending B teams, this tournament will not last past the first edition.
     
  12. pc4th

    pc4th New Member

    Jun 14, 2003
    North Poll
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The World Cup didn't stop lasting when England (who believed that since they were the undisputed KING OF Football they don't need to compete with the rest of the world to prove that they were number one) didn't participate.

    The World Cup survives despite England's absense.
    The World Club Championship will survive even if Real Madrid send their B team.
     
  13. Forza AZ

    Forza AZ New Member

    Jun 26, 2003
    Alkmaar
    This teams would have participated in 2003:

    1) champion of Europe : AC Milan (Italy)
    2) champion of South American: Boca Juniors (Argentina)
    3) champion of CONCACAF: Toluca (Mexico)
    4) champion of Asia: Al Ain (Un. Arab Emirates)
    5) champion of Africa: Enyimba (Nigeria)
    6) champion of NZ/Australia/Oceania: Wollongong Wolves (Australia)

    PS: There was no cup in Oceania in 2003, but the last winners were Wollongong Wolves in 2000.
     
  14. mr magoo

    mr magoo New Member

    Jul 19, 2002
    South Shields
    All major corner stones of world football.

    You really think the Japos, as thick as they are, will want to come out to watch these? They couldn't bring themselves out to watch a team other than Japan and David Beckham during the World Cup.

    Doooooomed A Tell YA Dooooooooomed
     
  15. Ronaldo+10

    Ronaldo+10 New Member

    Aug 20, 2003
    Los Angeles
    Just like the first attempt ??? It's a very simple logic really, people want to watch European and South American teams, a big reason why the intercontinental cup has been a success for over 40 years. Fifa would not have encorporated the Icc , if they were confident The Wcc could hold its own without European and South american clubs success. Just Imagine, how many people would want to watch a final of Chicage fire vs Wollongong Wolves ?? Or Al ayin vs Enyimba ??
     
  16. MadridForever

    MadridForever Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 29, 2001
    Madrid, Spain
    I have read the news today, and I I'm not against the WCC.

    I think that the format is:

    1st round:

    Asia, Concacaf, Africa and Oceania play 4 four games between them.

    2nd round(Semifinals):
    Each one of the winners of the first round will play agains European team and Against South American team.

    3rd round(Final):
    Winners of the semifinal.


    - Benefits/not bad:

    - I think that FIFA has though in the European Big teams with the format. They know that if European teams played more than 2 games, they would be totally against the championship.

    - The championship is good to help to promote soccer. The continental championships of Asia, Africa,Asia, Oceania, Concacaf would have more importance, because the champion will be able to play the WCC. More TV, more money,....

    - Even the first round will be attractive, because the "small" teams will fight for its prestige. I think that if the CONCACAF champion (Ex, Toluca) lose with the champion of Asia (Ex, Al Ain), the supporter of Toluca wouldn't be very happy and vice versa. They would fight to not be the "worse" continent.


    - The second round (semifinals) is only one game. It gives some chance to the "small" team to play the final. If the championship would be a league, the posibilities would be ZERO to win a europen team or a South American big team. But in only one game the small team will have more chances. We can see all the years big surprises in the England cup,and in the spain cup with 3rd division teams wining 1st division teams, and playing the last rounds.


    Bad things:

    FIFA is killing soccer with so many games. A big european team play 2 games eachweek for more than 10 month each year. In a game with so many contacts as soccer is imposible to maintain the level. The result is that the Quality of many games is going down. Ten years ago, you can see more good games because many weeks the player only have one game.

    I think that is better to see 40 very good games a year and offer a great product, that see 80 games a year of product very inferior.

    We see that many players of the big teams arrived to the end of the season "dead". And if it is World Cup year we see that many player are very tired to play in a good level the championship, we have a very clear example in the last World cup. I say the same, i want to see a word cup with players in a good form, not players that are at 50% of their best level.


    And FIFA instead of fight for that, invent every year new tournaments that doens't mean anything like the Confederation cup, making the soccer calendar a nightmare.


    WCC isn't a bad idea, but it will be a even better idea with a better calendar.
     
  17. SousaJP

    SousaJP New Member

    Feb 20, 2001
    Vienna, VA
    are you sure about that? I was under the impression that the 4 "inferior" confederations would be matched up to play 2 games. the winners would then play in the semifinals against the European and South American teams (2 more games). the winners advance to the Final and then you will have your true world club champion.

    I'm sure FIFA will have consolation games for 5th/6th and 3rd/4th, so this new format will give us 7 games total.
     
  18. MadridForever

    MadridForever Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 29, 2001
    Madrid, Spain
    This is what fifa say:

    http://www.fifa.com/en/display/mrel,74289.html

    - No. of teams: 6 – the champions of each confederation’s club championship in the respective year
    - No. of matches: 7
    - Number of match days: 4
    - Duration: 8 days
    - Date: December 2005
    - Host country: Japan


    And they said that European and South America only play two games, with that information i think that i should be something like:


    1st round - 4 games
    -------------------

    Winner A
    Team A vs Team B (two games)

    Winner B
    Team C vs Team D (two games)


    2rd round (semifinals) - 2 games
    ------------------------------

    Game A
    Winner A - European team

    Game B
    Winner B - South American team


    3 round (final) - 1 game
    -------------------------
    Winner Game A - Winner Game B


    Total 7 games
     
  19. Argentine Futbol

    Argentine Futbol Red Card

    Feb 21, 2003
    Old Greenwich, CT
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    They also have a problem as to when to host it? Down here in S.A , we are booked for Copa Lib and Copa Suda through out the year, not to include to Euro schedule.. Too much football is being played with hectic schedules. Same thing happened to the that Superleaque in Europe. Do the top teams in S.A and Euro have to prove themselves against all these other clubs? More than likely B teams will be sent and the tournament will die. Who's going to watch??
     
  20. pc4th

    pc4th New Member

    Jun 14, 2003
    North Poll
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Boca Jrs and AC Milan didn't send their B team to the ICC, why would they send their B team to the world championship where they could win more money and more world-wide respect?

    -oh, maybe because they have to play 2 games instead of 1, that's a reason to send their B team even though the first game will likely be a warm-up match.

    Who would want to watch?
    -people in Africa, Asia, North America, Australia, New Zealand to see if the represented team from their region can compete with the big boys. If people from South America and Europe doesn't want to watch, that's fine.

    Tournament host rotation (something like this)
    2005: Japan
    2006: North America
    2007: Africa
    2008: South America
    2009: Europe
    2010: Oceania

    2001: Asia

    and the rotation continues, each continent get a chance to host the world championship every 6 years.
     
  21. Andy TAUS

    Andy TAUS Member

    Jan 31, 2004
    Sydney, AUS
    mr magoo

    If the European clubs are as cynical as you and do that, then they'll end up by paying the price of being publicly humiliated & seen with lots of egg on their face.

    Andy T.
     
  22. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    So I guess we should start putting Real Madrid in the 1st round of Champions League qualifying, eh? Hey, I'm all for it - then it's not just us "lesser leagues" that have to go through zillions of qualification rounds. What do you mean you don't want to...?

    Your argument has so many holes, it could be used as a pasta colander.
    Says the guy who probably just put a new Zidane picture in his wallet after the contract extension.
    All of you gold-painting the Intecontinental Cup and its tradition are conveniently forgetting about its actual history. Do I really have to remind you of how little Europeans cared for the ICC until the very recent past? Hell, it almost died because Uefa’s teams were tired of getting butchered with violent tackles in the South American away leg. Toyota saved the tournament by making the final a one game affair and moving it to Japan. I'm sure people complained then, just as they are doing now. What I find “soil your pants” funny is how Conmebol now has the nerve to cry about the change of format. It wasn't too long ago that they were the ones begging for attention from Europe’s finest. Now the tables have turned and they haven't learned a thing...
     
  23. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    You do realize how pathetic you sound vociferating about one extra game, right?

    But by all means – continue. It’s such whiny antics that make Jesse Hertzberg jump like a pre-teen cheerleader out of joy. After all, bitching and moaning are about 90% of what makes this site a smashing success...

    As for my other fellow Europeans, I used to share your view on this very issue, but living in the Concacaf region for a few years has changed my opinion drastically. Club football here is in serious need of some vitality, and the Club World Championship should provide for some of it. Now you ask yourself, "why should we care about the other confederations?" The answer is simple; they contributed in the creation of storied icons such as Real Madrid, Manchester United, and AC Milan. After countless jersey selling tours in Asia and elsewhere, it is time to finally give something back. One game is not too much to ask…(especially since it is financially compensated)

    That’s all I’m going to say on the subject, and after giving some of you a much needed reality headlock and playing whack-a-mole with numerous lethargic arguments, I hope that at least one minute of macro thought will be put into future posts.
     
  24. Argentine Futbol

    Argentine Futbol Red Card

    Feb 21, 2003
    Old Greenwich, CT
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Well, We'll see what happens. We all have our opinions. Especailly the conmebol and uefa which is what matters. I don't think neither confederation is going for it, Including clubs that probably would risk losing the championship at home in order to go play some ridiculous matches, Yes, Championships are decided by fews point. I rather win out home league than some WCC. The ICC is great and it has history. 43 years worth..
     
  25. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Wrong. The only confederation that might have the power to stop this is Uefa, which is why Conmebol is sending love letters to Lennart Johansson.
    That's fine. Some European fans prefer winning the domestic league over the Champions League.
    Did you read my preceding post? It wasn't too long ago that South America had to artificially hype the ICC...

    43 years? Does that mean the Concacaf Champions Cup has a great history as well?
    Look, I like the ICC, but trying to sugarcoat it as a magnum opus is simply not justified.
     

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