------------ Yep, I went to those games ! The decision to follow US style sports leagues set up at the time of formation of the MLS pretty much cast the die that we will never have pro-rel. What I would rather see now is a proper pyramid - similar to MLB-- to produce a pipeline of players Academy > USL2 > USL1 > USLC > MLS or something similar. But having said that, MLS should not go beyond 32 teams. Too many weak teams still , need to lift those up.
For a nation the size of the USA and Canada , 32 teams doesn’t cover every state or province. Looking at states like Nevada , Louisiana , Oklahoma, the Carolinas, Indiana , Kentucky , the Dakotas , Maine and Alabama in the USA and then Manitoba , Saskatchewan and Alberta in Canada , they are all without top clubs. I’m sure big cities and communities in those states and provinces could build a stadium and support a club. What I do believe is sometime down the line , MLS will have regional divisions or conferences. West , East, Central , North , South. If that happens, making the playoffs will mean more and a round robin playoff tournament would be more interesting.
Canadian Premier League launched last year. Team in Manitoba, two in Alberta and one likely expansion in Saskatoon. But yeah, the scale of those cities is nothing to do with what's in the US. To give you an idea, ALL of Saskatchewan would rank about 50th as a US metro area, around Birmingham and Buffalo. And its major cities are 200-300k, which is less than Green Bay, WI.
I am hearing that Liga MX will officially suspend Pro/rel, they say for 5 years. http://futmexnation.com/2020/02/20/...rs-replaces-league-with-developmental-league/ So how is FIFA going to tell MLS what to do, when they won't say shit when Liga MX suspends their pro/rel?
Interestingly, when Sepp Blatter was in charge of FIFA, he stated that Liga MX was the most important league outside of Europe. He said it was actually more important than either Brazil or Argentina. I think he may have had a point about clubs in Mexico being more financially stable. The individual players may have more skill but they also go for weeks without getting paid and a lot of clubs have problems on and off the field. Another reason on why both Matias Almeyda and Guillermo Barros Schelotto are coaching in MLS as opposed to Argentina.....
Hey now, it's only suspended until the second division gets its crap together.. Now, the question is, are they doing anything to help the lower division clubs get their crap together is the thing.. Or is it a "You're on your own!" situation.
The Netherlands also suspended pro/rel from D2 to the divisions below that. So they have 38 teams that play in a closed two tier system with 4 of those teams being reserve teams. The idea that FIFA mandates an open system from top to bottom is based on people just paying attention to places like Germany and England.
The Juventus U23 competes in the Serie C , the third level of the Italian football league system. They are Juve’s reserve team and cannot play in the same division as their senior team. The way they set them up currently is the U23 team are ineligible for promotion to the Serie A. Not sure about relegation or if they can play in the domestic cup. I’m assuming they can though.
This is not a surprise. The truth is that in Mexico pro/rel has existed for many years with an asterisk next to it. If a big team were ever to be relegated then the first thing that would happen was that millionaire owners would buy out a scrub team, rename it, and then buy out someone else's slot in the first division-- and various other shenanigans too numerous to mention. The ways to skirt pro/rel were limited only by one's imagination. In other words even though pro/rel existed, the heart of the club owners was never in it. Mexico has been very slowly veering more towards the American closed league model than a Euro open one. Even pro/rel was different. It wasn't by the last three teams (or two etc.) that happened to finish last in the table but by multi-season cumulative average of relegation points. So it was possible to finish last in a season and not be relegated if this was your first year finishing last and another team had finished badly two or three years in a row. I'm not criticizing the system mind you---it makes perfect sense to me, but it cannot be argued it was an ingenious, clever way around the way pro/rel usually worked elsewhere. Back on topic---Granted this stop of pro/rel in Liga MX is by their own admission temporary--but what if they find that things in Liga MX work just fine without pro/rel in the meantime? They might not have much of an incentive to go back.
Spain has a similar setup with Barca B and other reserve teams in lower leagues but ineligible for promotion.
Mmm. Half truths are lies. The KNVB suspended mandatory P/R. The reason for that is that the teams forced to promote arenot happy about certain obligations after promoting. So to first sort things out they decided to abandon it altogether until 2023.
They'd rather win nothing? What about the fans who stuck with the club thru the D2 years, season after season?
There are some religious matters playing in it. Clubs that now out of religious reasons play on saturday in the KNVB set up were going to be forced to play after being promoted all their matches on Friday or Monday. This was unacceptable to them.
Wowwwwwww. I assume they knew about the potential scheduling issues well in advance. Did they join the FA thinking they'd always get special treatment? Why did that FA ever allow them to cite religious reasons for scheduling to begin with? "We don't care how or what you or your fans worship, but you'll play when the rest of us play, or you'll play in some other league. Have a wonderful day!" is the only response to this kind of thing.
Um, have you noticed how few Salt Lake home games are ever on Sunday? In their history? (See also BYU athletic events and even Utah Jazz games I think)
Thanks for the info. No, it simply never occurred to me to even think about such a thing. FWIW, I've been paying attention to MLS for only the last three seasons (when I finally got a team), and RSL plays in the West while I focus on the East. I can see how a closed league might allow for the wishes of a local fanbase (in this case, RSL) by scheduling conveniently. But in a nation with a footballing culture, I'd think there would be enough clubs waiting in the wings that no small club could make such a demand. It further penalizes clubs that get relegated, because they now have to play against some clubs that should be a tier above them. I don't know what kind of situation it creates when a club gets promotion because another didn't want it. If I were a fan of the club that accepted the promotion, I'd be concerned about trashtalk about being undeserving. It's kind of always been my belief than in a true ladder system, there is only one champion- the winner of the top flight. All other league competitions are to get to the next tier. So IMO this fanbase has essentially accepted never winning anything (other than the version of the FA Cup) despite having the talent to get into position to do so.
The clubs and their respective religious (Catholic and Protestant) leagues existed long before they merged into a nation wide KNVB after the war. Without the aknowledgement of their special status the KNVB would only cover half the country as a league, so it's a no brainer to take those things in consideration.
They did this again? Until a few years ago, mandatory promotion between the 3rd and 2nd tier hadn't been in place since the seventies. They only reinstated it in 2016. I imagine this is because of the cultural philosophy in Dutch football that values the amateur game. I find it amusing that for all the raving from the pro/rel fundamentalists that the USA cannot hope to produce talent without pro/rel, one of the most prolific talent-developers in the world doesn't have that fully open system.
Dutch development success has nothing to do/isnot reliant on P/R. What really is the foundation for our developmental success is the fact that hardly any talent playing soccer is overlooked. This is due to the fine mazed amateur club system we have that form the fundament of the soccer developmental pyramid. From the amateur clubs talents are passed on to the pro club academies, of which most have established partnerships with local/regional amateur clubs. Part of that developmental pyramid is also that the young talents can test themselves with likewise qualities and in the last stage of the development of the top talents they are exposed and being forced to put their technique and tactical awarenes on the pitch against matured/adult pro players who arenot on the pitch for a nice game of soccer like in youth vs youth confrontations, but for their bread and butter. This however only applies to the Young teams of a couple of Eredivisie clubs.
Look at the bright side: When Mexican clubs continue to win the Champions League, we won't have to listen to the dopes who come in here to blame it on the lack of pro/rel.
Indeed. In fact, my understanding is that many of the successful youth overhauls (Germany, Belgium, Uruguay) in the last couple of decades were based on trying to emulate the outcomes that the Dutch symbiotic relationship between pro and amateur levels produces.
The relegation promotion battles do make for interesting games at seasons end between the top 2nd and bottom 1st tier clubs. Sometimes relegation strengthens squads but more often than not, it implodes them. I still don't see the lure or the need for North American soccer leagues or for that matter, MLS, to go down that route. Especially if they aren't obligated to it.
I don't think pro rel can work financially. Especially now, with COVID devastating the economy. BUT if I was to make a devil's advocate case for it, consider the fact that MLS is..very regional in its support. People do not tune in if their local side is not involved. And areas with no team don't care. Pro rel would change that equation I reckon.
Just for fun and out of sheer boredom, I took a look at the final standings for each MLS season. If the United States had a professional soccer pyramid like you see in many other countries, which MLS teams would have been targeted for relegation? From 1996 to 2010, Major League Soccer had anywhere from 10 to 16 teams playing in a given season. Based on that lineup, I took the two lowest point total teams to relegate. Here's what I came up with: 1996--New England Revolution and Colorado Rapids 1997---New York Metrostars and San Jose Clash 1998---New England Revolution and Kansas City Wizards 1999---New York Metrostars and Kansas City Wizards 2000---DC United and San Jose Clash 2001---Tampa Bay Mutiny and Colorado Rapids 2002---New York Metrostars and DC United 2003---Los Angeles Galaxy and Dallas Burn 2004---New England Revolution and Chicago Fire 2005---Real Salt Lake and Chivas USA 2006---Columbus Crew and Kansas City Wizards 2007---Toronto FC and Real Salt Lake 2008---Los Angeles Galaxy and San Jose Earthquakes 2009---New York Red Bulls and San Jose Earthquakes 2010---DC United and Chivas USA From 2011 to 2018, MLS had 18 to 23 teams on its roster, so I increased the relegated teams to 3. 2011---New England Revolution, Toronto FC, and Vancouver Whitecaps 2012---Toronto FC, Portland Timbers, and Chivas USA 2013---DC United, Toronto FC, and Chivas USA 2014---Montreal Impact, San Jose Earthquakes, and Colorado Rapids 2015---Chicago Fire, Philadelphia Union, and Colorado Rapids 2016---Chicago Fire, Columbus Crew, and Houston Dynamo 2017---DC United, Los Angeles Galaxy, and Colorado Rapids 2018---Orlando City, Colorado Rapids, San Jose Earthquakes As MLS grew to 24 teams and beyond, it would probably be right to relegate 4 teams annually in the foreseeable future. 2019---Orlando City, FC Cincinnati, Sporting Kansas City, Vancouver Whitecaps So, which teams over 24 MLS seasons have been bottom-feeders the most? 6---Colorado Rapids and San Jose Clash/Earthquakes 5---DC United 4---New England Revolution, New York Metrostars/Red Bulls, Toronto FC, Kansas City Wizards/Sporting Kansas City, and Chivas USA 3---Chicago Fire and Los Angeles Galaxy 2---Columbus Crew, Orlando City, Real Salt Lake, and Vancouver Whitecaps 1---Tampa Bay Mutiny, Montreal Impact, Philadelphia Union, FC Cincinnati, Houston Dynamo, Dallas Burn, Portland Timbers Franchises that would have never been relegated: Miami Fusion, New York City FC, Atlanta United, Los Angeles FC, and Seattle Sounders. The Fusion were contracted along with Tampa Bay after the 2001 season. The other 4 teams are relatively new to MLS, with Seattle being in the league the longest (11 seasons).