FIFA May Allow Dual Nationals To Switch

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by willydonc, Nov 2, 2002.

  1. beineke

    beineke New Member

    Sep 13, 2000
    Great link, thanks.

    Frankly, this rule would be horrendous news for the US Junior Teams. We're a nation of immigrants, so a huge fraction of our talent has dual citizenship.

    Imagine if South Korea had offered Alex Yi the chance to be on their squad in WC 2002 ... or if Televisa offered Guillermo Gonzalez $10 million to play for Mexico ... or if Italy made Quaranta an offer he couldn't refuse. The USSF would be constantly immersed in bidding wars over its star players.
     
  2. fidlerre

    fidlerre Member+

    Oct 10, 2000
    Central Ohio
    as would other federations all over the world...

    this would be a rediculous change in policy.
     
  3. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Whether we like it or not, I think something along these lines is the right thing to do. Basically forcing a minor to cap-tie themselves is a bit unfair.

    Look at the silly rush to "hurry up and have Freddy Adu play in a U17 WCQer." Does anyone really think most 13-17 year olds can make informed consent decisions that affect their future?

    The fact is, this rule will likely help the United States - in my opinion. Suddenly the Chris Armas youth Puerto Rico games, or Diego Gutierrez youth games don't matter.
     
  4. davide

    davide Member

    Mar 1, 2001
    How is the going to help the USA?

    Chris Armas didn't play for PR at the youth level, so he doesn't apply and the games he did play didn't matter anyway.

    Diego Gutierrez doesn't apply either because he didn't hold dual citizenship when he played for Colombia at the youth level.

    This rule would be bad for Canada and the USA. Both countries have many top youth players with ties to a another country. The future bidding wars for players will create a big problem for federations without much money (many Non-European).

    There would be less incentive for federations to build stong youth national team with players that could change countries at a later date.

    Which current players do the makers of this proposal have in mind?
     
  5. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Chris Armas did, in fact, play for Puerto Rico as a youth. Since the game(s) were not in FIFA tournaments, he was not cap tied.

    It will help us because we are an emerging power that looks likely to make most every world championship. Better players like to play on winners. Carribean or Central Americans that move the US as kids (like Freddy Adu of Ghana) will be more likely to pick the US as senior internationals. Is St Kitts and Nevis ever going to make the World Cup?

    I think you'll see more competitive youth tournaments as players no longer fear being locked in.

    The fact is, it's the right thing to do. Forcing a 15 year old with legitimate ties to two or more countries to lock in his future is not fair, in my opinion.
     
  6. GersMan

    GersMan Member

    May 11, 2000
    Indianapolis
    I think the wiggle room re friendlies not counting is more than enough. Nothing broken here. The extremely rare situation of a 15-year old being capped should not dictate such a major rule change. Zak Whitbred has apparently decided to wait as long as he needs to before committing to the U.S., and that is his right.
     
  7. davide

    davide Member

    Mar 1, 2001
    Ok, Chris Armas played for the Puerto Rican National Team five times in the 1993 Carribean Cup. The Carribean Cup was a non-FIFA competition in 1993. These games took place before his senior year of college.

    Armas didn't play in a competitive match at the youth level (U-23, U-20, U17) or full level for Puerto Rico. Armas was never tied to Puerto Rico.

    Anyway, this rule is irrelevant to Chris Armas and Diego Gutierrez. Armas was never tied and Gutierrez didn't have dual citzenship as a youth.

    Most of the kids that move to the US as kids do not have US citizenship and thus cannot represent the US at the youth level. They aren't dual citizens so the rule does not apply.

    Freddie Adu doesn't currently have US citizenship, so he doesn't apply either, yet.

    The more competitive youth tournament argument is nonsense. I don't really care about that anyway. The final tournaments have plenty of good players.

    My concern is that the USSF would invest 500K at Bradenton to help develop player A and that player could decide to play for another country.

    Can anyone name a player that was tied to another as a youth, but was also a dual citizen and thus would now be eligible for the USA under this rule? No, then how does the rule benefit the USA?

    Also, most players are 16 or 17 years old when they are first tied not 15. And nobody is forcing them to represent the USA. They can always refuse the callup.
     
  8. fidlerre

    fidlerre Member+

    Oct 10, 2000
    Central Ohio
    there is your answer...

    these kid dont have to play for the united states or their respective country if they dont want to play for them. they can play in various friendlies and non-sanctioned tournaments before they ever have to make up their mind and get cap-tied to a specific country.

    this new rule would be assanine.
     
  9. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Then why can't 16-17 year olds be trusted to make decisions involving smoking, alcohol, and voting?

    Either they're minors or adults. If they're not adults, then they should not be treated as such.

    If the US wants to take the *risk* of a developing a player at Bradenton who then goes to another country, that's too bad. Most of the Bradenton kids aren't good enough at the senior level anyway.

    It works both ways. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
     
  10. TheSlipperyOne

    TheSlipperyOne Member+

    Feb 29, 2000
    Denver
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I've been holding off on cap tying myself to the US. I will soon be moving to America Samoa and play for their national team.
     
  11. Foosinho

    Foosinho New Member

    Jan 11, 1999
    New Albany, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Me too!
     
  12. Stinkey Turner

    Dec 15, 2000
    Frankly if Yi or anybody else wanted to play for another country, well then, good riddance! Who wants 'em. Let's say Adu went to go play for Ghana, outside of BS, it's not the end of the world. if they don't want to be here representing our National Team they can all take a hike as far as I'm concerned.
     
  13. jmeissen0

    jmeissen0 New Member

    Mar 31, 2001
    page 1078
    well put mr. mead, well put
     
  14. Preston North End

    Feb 17, 2000
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Davide has some valid points.

    The new FIFA rule - if adopted - would only apply to players with dual citizenship at the time they are U21. The example of Diego Gutierrez and Chris Armas doesn't count as a player that could benefit from this rule since both only held single citizenship at the time. Davide points this out.

    As Davide asks - how many players are there that currently can claim U.S. citizenship and citizenship with another country and are U21? His assumption - incorrect as it is - is that the U.S. will not benefit from this rule because there are not many. I do think it will be rare where a dual citizen with the chance to play for one country at the youth international level will end up playing for the USNT "A" side. What normally happens is the Armas, Gutierrez, or even Ezra Hendrickson (though I don't EZ played for the SVG YNT's) situations. A foreign national that played for their YNT moves to the U.S. and ends up becoming a U.S. citizen and then plays for the USNT "A" side.

    On the other hand, with the likes of Whitbred (can claim English and U.S. citizenship) and Adu (currently on Ghananian, but soon to be U.S. as well) out there now this could help or hurt the U.S. in the future - contrary to Davide's assumption.

    Whitbred could play for the U.S. at the U20 World Cup and still go on to play for England at the "A" level. Adu could get his U.S. citizenship and then play for Ghana at a U17 FIFA event (qualifier or finals) and then end up playing for the U.S. The Adu situation is not likely to happen, but you get my point. Both scenarios could reverse themselves too. IMO, these two examples will not happen has often as some might think it will, but they will continue to happen. The Armas and Gutierrez scenarios will happen more than these when you look at how the U.S. can benefit.
     
  15. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't have a problem with a change saying a kid can't be cap-tied at the U-17s, or before his 18th birthday. But there are enough 19 and 20 year olds playing pro soccer for big bucks in a sophisticated atmosphere; they should be able to make a lifelong, binding choice.
     
  16. nancyb

    nancyb Member

    Jun 30, 2000
    Falls Church, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Folks - you can take your political discussions to the politics board.
     

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