FIFA International Match Calendar: Proposed Changes & General Discussion

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by Nico Limmat, Oct 29, 2019.

  1. almango

    almango Member+

    Sydney FC
    Australia
    Nov 29, 2004
    Bulli, Australia
    Club:
    Sydney FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    No one takes the NL seriously. It's only there for teams that struggled to organise friendlies. It can go the way of the Confederations Cup.
     
  2. Serious or not, they're on the menu and not going away.
     
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  3. almango

    almango Member+

    Sydney FC
    Australia
    Nov 29, 2004
    Bulli, Australia
    Club:
    Sydney FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    There are currently 10 days a year for international matches. The world cup qualifiers I've suggested take up 14 match days in the first two years, and the subsequent Euro qualifiers will take up another 6. That leaves space for a nations league (10 match days) if UEFA insists on having one. It will also need to move to a 3 year cycle rather than a 2 year cycle. With the top 16 not needing to play Euro qualifiers it leaves space for them to play friendlies in preparation for the tournaments as well. More than enough competitive games for everyone including the minnows. The time frame isn't the issue. It's only if it's a desirable thing to do.
     
  4. r0adrunner

    r0adrunner Member+

    Jun 4, 2011
    London, UK
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I don't think so.

    Qualifying groups based within a framework of - for UEFA teams - three leagues (6 x GS games) with playoffs at the end could be played between June or September 2025 and March 2026 (8 or 10 MDs).
     
  5. I had the impression it was because of UEFA's greed to take a part of the cash the countries with the most lucrative friendlies were making.
     
  6. r0adrunner

    r0adrunner Member+

    Jun 4, 2011
    London, UK
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #931 r0adrunner, Dec 20, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2022
    UEFA - and this is something other confederations should look at too - want more competitive qualifiers, which means NL style leagues containing groups of 4 teams so each team plays 6 home-and-away GS games with playoffs at the end for League A teams which don't qualify automatically and the highest ranked teams from Leagues B and C. This is linked to NL because it determines in which Leagues each team starts in the following season through promotion/relegation.

    This opens the possibility moving to a 3-year NT cycle like this:
    - 2029/30: 2030 WCQ + WC in June/July 2030
    - 2030/31: 2031 ECQ + EC in June/July 2031
    - 2031/32: 2032 NL + CWC in June/July 2032
    - 2032/33: 2033 WCQ + WC in June/July 2033
    etc...
     
  7. r0adrunner

    r0adrunner Member+

    Jun 4, 2011
    London, UK
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Qualifiers become super-important in this format if only the automatic qualifiers come from the League A groups because if you are relegated to Leagues B or C - England was relegated from League A to League B in the 2022/23 NL GS for example - you are forced to start the next season outside League A which means that to qualify for the next final tournament (unless the following season is just NL only) you have to successfully navigate the playoffs.

    Even in the season which is only for the NL (the one in which the CWC is played at the end of the season in June/July) it would be important for NTs to be promoted to Leagues A and B or avoid relegation from Leagues A and B in order to give themselves the best opportunity to qualify for the next final tournament the following season.
     
  8. PJ234

    PJ234 Member

    DC united
    United States
    Oct 17, 2021
    I also think UEFA should use the nations league as qualifiers for euros and World Cups. It would make the games even more competitive in my view. And like I said earlier it would cut back on time so a lot of players and coaches.
     
  9. r0adrunner

    r0adrunner Member+

    Jun 4, 2011
    London, UK
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #934 r0adrunner, Dec 20, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2022
    This NL-style qualifying format is perfect for all confederations. For example, South Korea no longer has to play Mongolia in qualifying - assuming they do not end up in the same league and are drawn in the same group in which case bravo Mongolia - but Mongolia still gets at least 6 competitive games per year and still has the possibility twice in a new 3-year cycle to qualify for the WC or AC via the playoffs (if it is not in League A) and be promoted to a higher league.

    Also - and I cannot stress how important this is - all 211 NTs start every year with at least the objective of being promoted to a higher league and/or not relegated to a lower league plus - in the years which end with a WC or continental championship - qualifying for a final tournament. No more cases of NTs being eliminated from qualifying after one home-and-away tie and having to wait years to play competitively again.
     
  10. I don't think you understand the difference between qualification groups (which are ment to get the best=highest ranked teams qualified by composing those groups with countries from different seeding pools) and the NL groups, which are ment to let countries from the same level bracket compete with each other to challenge their capabilities with peers.
    So these concepts are complete opposites of each other and thus can't be used for qualification purposes.
     
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  11. r0adrunner

    r0adrunner Member+

    Jun 4, 2011
    London, UK
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    UEFA does not want traditional qualifying groups anymore with typically one team from each of the 5 or 6 pots being drawn into each group giving us games like England-San Marino and France-Faroe Islands.

    It is expected to announce next month that qualifying will be formatted using NL-style leagues.

    UEFA already announced this format for women's NTs last month.

    https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/new...the-new-uefa-women-s-national-team-competiti/
     
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  12. almango

    almango Member+

    Sydney FC
    Australia
    Nov 29, 2004
    Bulli, Australia
    Club:
    Sydney FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    I disagreed with you on a couple of other points but agree with you here. All teams should have a chance of qualifying for a world cup tournament when those qualifiers start. You shouldn't be ineligible simply because you are in a lower league. It's not often someone from low down ends up qualifying (particularly in UEFA) but North Korea did from AFC in 2010 when they were in the lower division of AFC Tournaments at the time. Even if it's a rare event, they deserve the opportunity (and also the chance to get some higher revenue home games against top teams).
     
  13. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    True , although I think UEFA could benefit by doing something in-between like other confederations. i.e add a preliminary round that would eliminate a dozen or so cannon fodder teams and include only about 40ish teams in the main qualifying group stage.
     
  14. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    Not directly related to the thread topic, but then again FIFA rankings impact the composition of the groups in the WC, so I'm dumping my point here. :)

    Just looking at the latest FIFA rankings and an immediate flaw in the system jumps out at me. Italy only lost 2 points by not playing in the WC, while teams competing but maybe not going as far as expected lost a lot more points, including Spain who reached the second round. Brazil also lost almost the same amount of points as Italy. :alien:
     
  15. r0adrunner

    r0adrunner Member+

    Jun 4, 2011
    London, UK
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    UEFA has never done nor - I think - will do such a thing as having a preliminary home-and-away round to eliminate some of the weakest teams before the GS.

    The differences in qualification pathways also mean that some teams do not have the opportunity to play meaningful and competitive matches for long periods in the event that they are eliminated in the early rounds of a preliminary competition. By way of example, Pakistan were eliminated from the first round of the AFC qualifiers for the 2018 FIFA World Cup Russia on 23 March 2015. Following their elimination, they did not participate in a FIFA World Cup qualifying match again for over four years until the first round of the AFC qualifiers for the FIFA World Cup Qatar 2022 on 11 June 2019. This means that for more than four years, over 200 million people living in the world’s fifth-most populous country were unable to dream of participating in a FIFA World Cup. There are numerous similar examples from other confederations, and the issue of teams being eliminated after just one or two rounds of qualification matches has been identified as a matter of concern for football development in certain confederations, resulting in new qualification pathways being considered in order to ensure more regular, competitive and meaningful matches for a greater number of member associations.

    (page 30 of the FIFA Biennial WC Feasibility Study)

    NL-style leagues containing groups of 4 teams each for WC and continental championship qualifying provide:

    - more competitive and higher games by ensuring teams play opponents of broadly similar ability enabling all teams to have better chances of winning games (no more England-San Marino / South Korea-Mongolia type games in the GS);
    - the opportunity for all teams to qualify either directly (from League A groups) and via playoffs (from Leagues A, B and C groups);
    - dynamic and meritocratic competitions because - in addition to qualifying - teams can be promoted or relegated between leagues based on performance for the next cycle (NL or next qualifiers);
    - greater fan engagement and are therefore commercially more lucrative for confederations and national associations;
    - the opportunity for all teams to play a reasonable number of competitive games each year which helps to foster their development, thereby avoiding situations like those which await the 11 losing teams in the AFC 2026 WC / 2027 AC preliminary qualifying round in October 2023.

    We would not entertain the idea of clubs not being divided into divisions and not being able to be promoted or relegated based on performance. Why should the same not be true for NTs?
     
  16. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    The whole "fostering development" argument is weak imo if we are talking about countries with populations of 20 or 40 thousand. Even if we pretend that players can only improve when they wear the colours of their national team, these tiny countries will always have very weak teams, plain and simple.

    Plus, one could argue that having the top level or mid-level NTs wasting their time playing against amateur and semi-professional players hinders the development of players on those teams.
     
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  17. it's indeed bullshit national teams improve players, club football does.
     
  18. r0adrunner

    r0adrunner Member+

    Jun 4, 2011
    London, UK
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Playing more competitive games is part of the strategy to develop NTs.

    For example, Hungary has benefited by playing similarly matched opponents in its NL groups, which resulted in it almost winning a group containing England, Germany and Italy in the 2022/23 GS.

    European national associations would not accept basing their WC or EC qualification on a home-and-away tie.
     
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  19. r0adrunner

    r0adrunner Member+

    Jun 4, 2011
    London, UK
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    That is why dividing NTs into leagues will replace traditional qualifying groups as from 2026, at least in Europe.
     
  20. r0adrunner

    r0adrunner Member+

    Jun 4, 2011
    London, UK
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    While that is true, playing for a NT helps a player to cope with the demands of NT soccer. In many developing countries NT soccer will be of a higher quality than league games.
     
  21. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Concacaf begs to differ... and ask literally any fan of a Concacaf NT here, I doubt any of us wants to adopt UEFA-style qualifying, as humorous as it would be to watch the US drop double-digits on the USVI.
     
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  22. PJ234

    PJ234 Member

    DC united
    United States
    Oct 17, 2021
    Yeah I would not want that whatsoever.
     
  23. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    Will believe it when I see it.
     
  24. I don't buy it.
    With what purpose?
    The goal is to get the best teams to qualify. How is that being realized when you put the best teams together, as then they eliminate the top teams.
     
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  25. PJ234

    PJ234 Member

    DC united
    United States
    Oct 17, 2021
    I really don't want Russia to join AFC. They are banned for a reason. Would love to see the all whites (New Zealand) join instead of them.
     

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