FIFA Assistant Referees

Discussion in 'Referee' started by Chiller15J, May 2, 2007.

  1. Chiller15J

    Chiller15J New Member

    Apr 9, 2007
    Chicago Area
    In the EPL and UEFA Cup matches, I have noticed AR's not holding the flag in the correct hand(the hand closest to field). Also they don't snap the flag, they kind of "casually'' raise the flag for non foul/offside. Why do they not do those two things?

    One time there was a break away and the AR kept the flag in his outside hand the whole length of his half. Did he just forget? or do those technicalities not exist in the international matches?

    I would think the only reason why they don't snap it is because they are using electronic flags and the radio thingy, and it's a pretty big and loud place and won't hear it.

    Would you agree with my assumptions?


    I always look at the pros to improve myself, and them not doing the correct mechanics goes against what I have been taught. Plus ARing is how I got interested in reffing!
     
  2. Ref Flunkie

    Ref Flunkie Member

    Oct 3, 2003
    New Hudson, MI
    Why do they need to snap the flag? I'll be honest, I don't even snap the flag, and in fact, I have heard this is somewhat frowned upon because it calls attention to you. I think someone made a comment in the past about the hand thing and it was generally thought that they just do things the way that feels comfortable.
     
  3. Chiller15J

    Chiller15J New Member

    Apr 9, 2007
    Chicago Area
    I would think snap vs. no snap would be the center's decision. In both my AYSO and USSF training, both are for snapping. If I'm told to not snap that would probably take a while to get accustom to doing, I've AR'ed nearly 200 games doing that!

    One time in fields right next to each other, an AR popped his flag quiet loudly and I thought it was on my field! Luckily I didn't miss anything when I looked over to him.
     
  4. gosellit

    gosellit BigSoccer Supporter

    May 10, 2005
    From the USSF Guide to Procedures

    GENERAL POSITIONING...
    Assistant Referee
    l In line with second to last defender
    or the ball, whichever is closer to the
    goal line
    l Flag held straight down and always
    visible to referee

    l Side-to-side movement, square to the
    field, unless speed is needed
    l Before signaling, stops, faces field
    and makes eye contact with referee
    During Play
    Note: All positioning guidelines and diagrams assume that the referee is running
    a standard (to left of goalkeeper) diagonal and that positions would be
    reversed accordingly if the opposite diagonal were being used.

    Also, nowhere does it state in the Guide to Procedures that the AR snap or pop the flag.
     
  5. Caesar

    Caesar Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 3, 2004
    Oztraya
    I've heard conflicting views. I've always been taught, and by people who should know, that a snap is unnecessary and draws unwelcome attention. But at a training camp with a former FIFA assessor last month I was told that a snap is a good thing. I don't really know any more.
     
  6. intechpc

    intechpc Member

    Sep 22, 2005
    West Bend, WI
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The one case I've always made for "snapping" it up is exactly to draw attention, specifically from the CR. Ball in the first third of the CR's quadrant on my side of the pitch goes out of bounds. CR may not have a line of site to me but snapping the flag up make an audible noise that may cause him to notice me easier. That's always been the scenario I think of.

    I will admit though on more obvious situations where I have his attention already, I generally am more casual about it.
     
  7. falcon.7

    falcon.7 New Member

    Feb 19, 2007
    I think this is taught to new referees because it gets them in the habit of throwing a strong flag on offside/fouls. Weak flag = weak confidence = weak referee. In big, loud games, there's no way you can hear a flag pop. Even in those no-crowd games, I'm not sure if I've ever conciously heard a loud snap of a flag, but that could be from keeping the iPod volume up way too high :) .

    I would think at that sort of highly professional level (EPL), assessors are more concerned with you making correct calls and being in line to make those calls than which hand you hold the flag in on a breakaway. But then again, I'm not FIFA.
     
  8. Caesar

    Caesar Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 3, 2004
    Oztraya
    Don't know about that level, but as soon as you get to semi-pro in Australia they get incredibly anal about that sort of thing. Obviously getting the calls right is more correct, but you still get absolutely hammered on a report if your technique is sloppy. All about the professional image, I guess... I'm sure its similar in the States.
     
  9. KidRef

    KidRef New Member

    Jun 27, 2000
    California
    Once you get to upper levels you'll find that actually flag snapping is not preferred and in fact frowned upon. Additionally, other countries have different mechanics than the US, so mechanics for ARs in the UK for instance are different than those here or in other countries, etc...
     
  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    KidRef's got it right.

    First, different countries, different mechanics. And a lot of countries don't put anything close to the emphasis on AR mechanics that we do here. I personally find uniform mechanics important, but there is some validity to the opposite argument of "it's better to be right, than look pretty." Either way, the bottom line is that other countries do it differently from us, so don't look at them to learn mechanics.

    Second, I have no idea where anyone is getting the notion that snapping the flag is what's supposed to be done; if this is being taught at the lower or entry levels, then the instructor is just wrong. The ONLY time this would be necessary would be when the referee's back is turned or, possibly, when he's clearly missed an offside flag. At all other times, the referee should be looking toward the AR for a signal, so a snap unnecessarily draws attention to the AR. Plus, since we're talking about FIFA AR's initially here, what's a snap of the flag going to do in a stadium filled with at least 30,000 people?
     
  11. Englishref

    Englishref Member

    Jul 25, 2004
    London, England
    Holding the flag in the correct hand is one of the things assessors are incredibly picky on here. As low as Supply League level, if you are holding the flag on the outside, you will get absolutely slated. And above supply league level, where ARs are marked, you will lose a hatful of marks for doing so. So it will be very, very rare that you'll ever see an English AR hold the flag on the wrong side. I'm biased, I know, but I think we have the best ARs and 'mechanics' in the world. Though having said that, having watched MLS games, American ARs use almost an identical set of mechanics to us. When I've watched Mark Shield's games, his ARs also AR properly.

    However, it is a big problem in Europe, where I think they put more emphasis on decisions than mechanics, and so you get ARs going out with their flags wrapped up, running with the flag on the outside, flagging throw-ins at 90 degrees, flagging fouls with the flag straight up, rather than agitated, flagging offside, and then dropping it instantly rather than waiting for the ball to be correctly positioned, and worst of all, flagging with the wrong hand and changing hands mid-air. All of those are very common in Europe, especially Germany who have the worst AR mechanics IMO, and highly frowned upon by English officials.

    It is interesting to note that 'proper' mechanics (as used in England and the US), were taught and expected to be used in the WC. :cool:
     
  12. billf

    billf Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Different mechanics in different countries. Snapping the flag annoyed the hell out of me too. Its not needed and it's, IMO, gauche.
     
  13. bluedevils

    bluedevils Member

    Nov 17, 2002
    USA
    There's nothing in the USSF mechanics guide instructing us to snap the flag when signaling, and the only feedback I've ever heard from instructors/assessors is, it is not necessary.

    One thing I've been working on as an AR is making more deliberate, i.e. slower, signals. I don't mean taking more time before deciding to give the signal, but rather taking my time once I've decided to give the signal -- if that makes any sense. So once I have decided to put the flag up -- hopefully the decision was made in a timely fashion -- I raise it but am not in a rush to do so.

    However, I have been noticing this year (I don't think it is a new phenomenon, just that I happened not to notice in the past) on a lot of TV games here in the U.S. that a lot of the MLS ARs snap the flag back down after they have given their signal. I did that earlier in my AR days, but not any more.

    I agree with Caesar -- is a snap a good idea? I don't know any more.

    Perhaps what is good for TV is deemed unnecessary on other matches.
     
  14. IASocFan

    IASocFan Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2000
    IOWA
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sometimes, I think a snap is useful - like when the CR is focused away from the AR, and the AR has something to convey. If the ball is near the touchline far from the the AR and it goes over the touchline and back in play, a snap can let the CR know. If an offside and an onside player are moving toward the ball with the CR concentrating on potential foul situations, a snap will let that the offside call needs to be made. If the CR is closer to you with his back to you, and your opposing AR raises his flag that the CR fails to notice, a snap will get his attention, and the AR can point to his counterpart. If the CR is wide and can watch the AR and the play, then a snap is not necessary.

    Snapping is not something I've been instructed on, but 30 years of officiating has found it useful.
     
  15. Chiller15J

    Chiller15J New Member

    Apr 9, 2007
    Chicago Area
    So what I understand here is that for lower levels, you would snap the flag only to get the CR's attention. Any professional levels would almost be pointless.

    Since nearly everyone doesn't seem like a fan of snapping, I'll just ask the CR what he wants. Even at the re-cert. clinic when we practiced the AR signals, the instructor was for the snap.. kinda weird, where's the consistency?

    When I get my AR assessment (is it grade 6 and up you need AR assessments?) I'm sure I'll score very well with the mechanics.
     
  16. AlsoRan

    AlsoRan Member

    Aug 17, 2005
    Yes.

    You also mention that you have AYSO training. AYSO requires AR assessments for Advanced and National Referee upgrades.
     
  17. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

    Apr 7, 2004
    Southern NH
    We need to get our terms right I think, we teach to get the flag up quickly, and down slowly, which MIGHT result in a snap depending on the flag being used etc. What drives me completely nuts is the AR who puts it up, doesn't get recognition in a couple of seconds, and then starts snapping it loudly on purpose.

    Once its up, keep it there, CR should see it.
     
  18. bluedevils

    bluedevils Member

    Nov 17, 2002
    USA
    What I've seen on American TV games is the AR snapping it on the way down, as if this is a more 'crisp' way of doing the job.
     
  19. Spaceball

    Spaceball Member

    Jun 15, 2004
    I am going to side with the no-snap crowd. In fact, snapping is one of my pet peeves...especially the AR that has his flag up, doesn't get recognized and starts snapping it repeatedly.

    Flags are meant to be seen not heard...if we wanted sound devices flags would be equipped with horns. However, rather than that they are made of bright colors in fabric that is not particularly loud. If they were meant to be heard, I would think a fabric that is louder would be more appropriate.

    If you need to be heard by the center referee, use your voice. There is nothing wrong with verbalizing. I tell my AR's to yell my name...in a stadium with even a couple thousand fans it is the only chance I have of hearing. And, if anyone is concerned about players knowing your name, if they cared, it is announced for all the fans and players to hear prior to even HS matches.

    I believe Bluedevil is correct about watching MLS and seeing the crisp lowering of flags...it seems to convey a certainty when people are actually looking at you...most only look at the AR after the flag is up so no need to pop it on the way up...rather slow down, process, and raise the flag confidently.
     
  20. Tarheel Ref

    Tarheel Ref New Member

    May 3, 2007
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Over the years I've taken five different USSF Grade 8 entry level courses in three different states and have been taught a variety of techniques.

    Personally I prefer the single snap on the way up as AR and when I'm in the middle. Not only can the center guy hear the snap (sometimes) without looking, but the players recognize it as well. Then, of course, that flag is to be held up forever or until asked by the center to put it down.

    Snapping on the way down seems to me to be unnecessarily calling attention to oneself. I put the flag away quickly and quietly. ARs (generally not always) are to been seen not heard, that's why we get flags instead of whistles (although talking to the players to make sure they know to play the ball, arms down, etc. is good)

    I've noticed a somewhat lackadaisical (did I just use that word?) attitude on the part of some international ARs also and generally chalked it up to cultural differences but many don't look as professional as they could according to my training. I'm not sure the league as I generally watch games (for the love of the game!!!) for the action as opposed to who's who, and don't pay as much attention to the league affiliation of the teams. Univision, I know, is Mexican professional leagues...I'm not that out of it.
     
  21. Tarheel Ref

    Tarheel Ref New Member

    May 3, 2007
    Chapel Hill, NC
    And of course...Spaceball...continuous snapping is completely unnecessarily and uncalled for. Once the flag is up it will only be a few fleeting moments before you start getting screams from all around along the lines of "Hey why don't you look at the linesman you blind #&%^Q"
     
  22. Chiller15J

    Chiller15J New Member

    Apr 9, 2007
    Chicago Area
    Would you agree that the only time the flag should be popped(in non-professional games) should be for any time the signal would be to put the flag straight up. Either it goes out and back in, offside, or an infringement.
     
  23. Tarheel Ref

    Tarheel Ref New Member

    May 3, 2007
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Yep...one and done. If the first one is not heard and for some reason (and it's happened to me) the center is in a zone or watching something he deems more important and does not glance over and really misses the flag, the other players or spectators will GUARANTEED let him know.

    The infringement snap is, of course, followed by the agitation back and forth, but I'm never been able to get snaps that way anyway.
     
  24. IASocFan

    IASocFan Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2000
    IOWA
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wouldn't go quite that far, but I've seen too many referees get tired of signalling and eat a call.

    As AR, if I flag an offside and the defensive team controls the ball, I'll usually drop the flag - particularly if the keeper gets to the ball first. On fouls, I may drop if the other team gains advantage (sometimes indicating advantage if I'm on the coaches' side and they're curious to why I'm dropping the flag). If there is something CARD worthy, never drop the flag.
     
  25. Chiller15J

    Chiller15J New Member

    Apr 9, 2007
    Chicago Area
    For my AYSO training, they say to just wave the flag, not even straight up first. For the USSF, they say pop it, when the center looks at you, you wave it back and forth a bit. Is it a combination of the two for the "correct" signal? I really don't enjoy this lack of consistency:confused:
     

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