FIFA 2023 WWC qualifiers

Discussion in 'Women's World Cup' started by SiberianThunderT, Jun 30, 2020.

  1. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    While those four UEFA teams are favored over the USA at home, it's worth that USA visiting anyone 2nd-8th would put the two teams within 50pts of each other, which is essentially a toss-up in terms of "expected result" - i.e. the expected result is going to be somewhere close to 0.5 on a 0-to-1 scale. That means risk and reward will be symmetric here.

    Since this is a friendly between two top-ten teams, the rating weight is doubled, so that's an increase in both risk and reward. When two teams are essentially evenly matched, you aren't going to lose a negligible amount of points from a loss, and you also aren't poised to gain much from a win, but those values increase as the "match importance" does. Here we'd expect a one-goal victory to ship 9-10 points in either direction, regardless of the victor.

    So, for ENG, hosting the USA is a medium-risk, medium-reward affair in terms of possible points shifts. Visiting the USA would be low-risk, high-reward, but not hosting; it's a 200pt swing in the pre-match rating difference if you have the choice between hosting a given opponent or visiting them instead.
     
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  2. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    The ratings should take into account that Wembley is not just home: it's "home-where-you-just-won-an-historic-title-in-front-of-a-record-crowd". This should give more points than just "home". *joking* :p
     
  3. shlj

    shlj Member+

    Apr 16, 2007
    London
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Hosts 2: Australia, New-Zealand
    AFC 5: China, Japan, South Korea, Philippines, Vietnam
    UEFA 5/11: Sweden. Spain, Denmark, France, Norway
    CONCACAF: 4 USA, Canada, Costa Rica, Jamaica
    CAF: 4 Nigeria, South Africa, Morocco, Zambia
    CONMEBOL 3: Colombia, Brazil, Argentina or Paraguay
    OFC: 0 play-offs only
     
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  4. Lohmann

    Lohmann Member+

    Arminia Bielefeld
    Germany
    Feb 24, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
     
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  5. Pelefan

    Pelefan Member+

    Mar 17, 1999
    Chicago
  6. Klingo3034

    Klingo3034 Member+

    Dallas FC
    United States
    Oct 11, 2019
    We waiting 7 more?
     
  7. Pelefan

    Pelefan Member+

    Mar 17, 1999
    Chicago
    Yup. 32 teams total. 4 more from UEFA and 3 playoff winners.
     
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  8. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
    On September 6 we will know the other UEFA teams. Intercontinental playoffs aren't until Feb. 2023
     
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  9. shlj

    shlj Member+

    Apr 16, 2007
    London
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    We will know two more teams on September 6. And the 9 teams competing in the UEFA play to be played in October.
     
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  10. Lohmann

    Lohmann Member+

    Arminia Bielefeld
    Germany
    Feb 24, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Pot 1: AUS, NZL, USA, GER, SWE, ENG, FRA, NED
    Pot 2: CAN, ESP, BRA, JPN, NOR, ITA, CHN, DEN or ISL
     
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  11. Pelefan

    Pelefan Member+

    Mar 17, 1999
    Chicago
  12. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
    UEFA playoff births happen in October. Intercontinental tournament is in February.
     
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  13. Pelefan

    Pelefan Member+

    Mar 17, 1999
    Chicago
    UEFA WC Qualifying Play-offs:
    Austria (Group D runners-up)
    Belgium (Group F runners-up)
    Bosnia and Herzegovina (Group E runners-up)
    Iceland (Group C runners-up)*
    Portugal (Group H runners-up)
    Republic of Ireland (Group A runners-up)*
    Scotland (Group B runners-up)
    Switzerland (Group G runners-up)*
    Wales (Group I runners-up)
    *Bye to play-off round 2, other teams begin in round 1.
     
  14. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    At least 4-5 teams, here, that I'd really like to see at the World Cup. :ninja:
     
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  15. Pelefan

    Pelefan Member+

    Mar 17, 1999
    Chicago
    There is going to be a lot of strong teams even in pot 2.
     
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  16. Lohmann

    Lohmann Member+

    Arminia Bielefeld
    Germany
    Feb 24, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    My prediction was good. Now I hope that Iceland, Austria and Switzerland avoid each other in the play-offs.
     
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  17. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
    Who advances really just depends about the draw.
     
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  18. Lohmann

    Lohmann Member+

    Arminia Bielefeld
    Germany
    Feb 24, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    We will have a new World Ranking on 13th October before the World Cup draw. So what results does Spain need to overtake the Netherlands and reach pot 1?:unsure:

    World Ranking August
    NED 2002,99
    CAN 1986,51
    ESP 1983,13

    NED
    Scotland 2:1(H, friendly)
    Iceland 1:0(H, World Cup Qualifier)
    Norway (H, friendly)

    CAN
    Australia 1:0(A, friendly)
    Australia 2:1(A, friendly)

    ESP
    Hungary 3:0(H, World Cup Qualifier)
    Ukraine 5:0(H, World Cup Qualifier)
    Sweden (H, friendly)
    USA (H, friendly)
     
  19. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    #294 SiberianThunderT, Sep 20, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2022
    So ESP needs to make up nearly 20pts overall. Both of ESP's upcoming friendlies are between Top-Ten teams, so these matches will have a 2x multiplier (vs. the 4x multiplier of WCQ matches). With HFA, ESP will be favored over SWE while not favored over USA, but both should still be pretty close (within 30pts or so). If ESP wins both, I would except a gain of 25-30pts*, so there's a good chance of overtaking NED, though a strong-enough NED win over NOR might prevent that; if ESP beats SWE and draws USA, then they'll definitely hope that NOR got some result (preferably a win) against NED. I don't think ESP can guarantee a WC seed on their own either way.

    *on those two matches; I haven't estimated already-played matches, but I'm guessing ESP's two WCQ wins and NED's two wins somewhat cancel each other out here...
     
  20. jagum

    jagum Member

    CF Montreal
    Venezuela
    Jun 20, 2007
    Panama City, Panama
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    Venezuela
    What I see as complicated is that the draw for the 2023 World Cup will be done before the 3 playoff qualifiers are known. Assuming that the 3 qualifiers for the playoff will located in pot 4, how will nations from the same confederation be prevented from being paired in the same group If we don't even know who will qualify?
     
  21. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Because of how the playoffs are set up, it's possible to draw the playoffs such that each playoff path + group they're slotted into correctly maximizes as all 6 confed being represented. That is, if you pair playoff path 3 with a group that already has 2 UEFA teams, that combination has 6 confeds from 7 teams, while the other two playoff+group pairings have six teams each, so they can be constructed to not double-count any confed (though one *can* have two UEFA teams, which is almost a necessity for playoff path 1). Doing so removes a fair amount of randomness - I'd say about half? - from the actual playoff draw itself, but it's possible.

    I did a couple of example setups about two pages back in this thread, and yeah it's complicated with not quite as much randomness as we might like, but it works. I need to try a sample draw again and see if I can find some freer possibilities...
     
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  22. jagum

    jagum Member

    CF Montreal
    Venezuela
    Jun 20, 2007
    Panama City, Panama
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    Venezuela
    I still don't see it. Because in the same playoff draw it indicates that there cannot be teams from the same confederation in the same group. This will give 3 groups with at least representatives from 3 different confederations. Combining this with the 8 World Cup groups sounds complicated. I will check your examples to visualize it better
     
  23. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Put another way, TL;DR is that the WC groups that need playoff teams will have 2-3 confederations represented (depending on if UEFA is doubled up already) before the playoff team is added, and each playoff spot will be 3-4 confederations, so as long as you don't pair the 4-team playoff with a group that has 3 confederations already included, you'll never have more than 6 total. Thus it's possible that the draw for the playoffs can be done without forcing any overlaps with their respective WC groups. You're right that it's complicated, but it definitely can work - especially since the playoffs are very evenly distributed between the confederations.
     
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  24. Lohmann

    Lohmann Member+

    Arminia Bielefeld
    Germany
    Feb 24, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I guess this is no longer a realistic possibility after the retirement of 15 players.:cautious:
     
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  25. Pelefan

    Pelefan Member+

    Mar 17, 1999
    Chicago
    FawcettFan14, Hexa and toad455 repped this.

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