Certainly, I don't want to belabor this and we can agree to disagree. Both Benny and Sacha have proven to be useful and productive options off the bench for the United States. Both Joe Corona and Chris Wondolowski were largely ignored by JK in our recent 5 match tournament, where it was regularly noted that our so called "starters" played an inordinate amount of the minutes and may have actually been worn down/worn out by the time the 82nd minute arrived in Guatemala. One other thought: Regularly the match against Sweden where he scored the hat trick is downplayed. Check out the players that played in that match. Many caps among them and a few surprises. http://www.soccertimes.com/usteams/2009/men/jan24
I agree, but that is the past. Currently Kljestan is a fringe B team player and Feilhaber is at best C team. Bedoya and Rodgers are two others that played a role last cycle and may at best be fringe players this cycle if they are even in the picture. What you will see is JK give chances to a new set of fringe players that has qualities that he values (Williams, Morales, Corona,...) hoping that they develop into valuable assets. That is the soccer circle of life. New coach comes in new hopefulls emerge, old hopefulls are put to pasture. Not sure what this has to do with this current discussion but just because people state it on BS does not make it real. It is still just opinions. FYI I am not downplaying Kljestan's 4 goals in 35 matches it is still better than Feilhaber's 2 in 39.
The italicized portion isn't necessarily true. Maybe they would have made a difference, maybe not. There's no reason to expect that they were exactly what was needed to prevent us giving up a free kick in a dangerous area late in the game. It's not like JK hasn't seen these guys or doesn't know what they offer. He's had experience with them and found them wanting for his purposes. I think that's not an unreasonable assessment. If it were me, would I have called up Feilhaber and Kljestan? I personally probably would have called up one of them, and for me it's probably Benny because I find him a bit tidier with the ball, a bit better in traffic, and actually a bit better in the tackle. But the fact that JK's much, much, much, much more educated opinion differs from mine doesn't cause me to believe that JK was wrong. It causes me to wonder what I don't know about JK's system, his goals, his roles for his midfielders, beyond all the rampant speculation. It could just be that neither of these guys has enough Michael Bradley or enough Brek Shea to get onto the field, they are each kind of in between those areas and so aren't offering the types of qualities that JK wants.
The italicized portion isn't necessarily true. Maybe they would have made a difference, maybe not. There's no reason to expect that they were exactly what was needed to prevent us giving up a free kick in a dangerous area late in the game. It's not like JK hasn't seen these guys or doesn't know what they offer. He's had experience with them and found them wanting for his purposes. I think that's not an unreasonable assessment. If it were me, would I have called up Feilhaber and Kljestan? I personally probably would have called up one of them, and for me it's probably Benny because I find him a bit tidier with the ball, a bit better in traffic, and actually a bit better in the tackle. But the fact that JK's much, much, much, much more educated opinion differs from mine doesn't cause me to believe that JK was wrong. It causes me to wonder what I don't know about JK's system, his goals, his roles for his midfielders, beyond all the rampant speculation. It could just be that neither of these guys has enough Michael Bradley or enough Brek Shea to get onto the field, they are each kind of in between those areas and so aren't offering the types of qualities that JK wants.
I am thinking that this might be a rhetorical question. Actually, the United States has lost to Bermuda, Cuba, Hati, Iceland, Iran, Israel, Morocco, Monaco, Norway, Northern Ireland, Saudi Arabia, Trinidad and Tobago and tied the Netherlands Antilles, North Korea, and Tunisia. We have also defeated Spain, Brazil, Argentina, Germany and now Italy. Panama currently enjoys an elo rating of 35. We probably will see them in the Hex. Guatemala has an elo rating of 82. At this point, I believe Jamaica (elo 46) has a better team. We have never lost to them . . . (hopefully, this will continue).
There are very few absolute truths here on Big Soccer. We played a five game tournament (according to our coach). The time for experimentation was over (those were his words). On the 23 man roster, Parkhurst, Castillo, Corona, Wondolowski, and Guzan/Rimando were hardly used in the 5 matches. My point was that had we employed better options earlier, our tired players on the field in Guatemala might have been playing differently in the 82nd minute in Guatemala. And if we win 1-0 this discussion is moot. And it's fine with me if there are those who are sure JK has everything sorted out. And I'm glad we are not arguing about nepotism these days.
Folks, can we please not turn this into yet another rehash of the Klinsmann vs Bradley argument? Thanks.
Yes, agreed. For me, if I make a list that has Sacha, Benny, Parkhurst, Castillo, Corona, and Wondo on it, I don't look at any of those guys and think: "game changer." Actually, I don't know if there is anyone in our pool that makes me think that other than Landon and Deuce.
I pretty much agree. It's hard to say what Benny has left. Often I am critical of Klinsmann when he suffers from some of the same problems that any coach in his situation would have. Mother Hubbard's cupboard is bare. My two major points (at the risk of being redundant). 1. It would be nice to have an effective attacking option coming off the bench (certainly BF may not be the answer, nor may we have one in our pool). 2. With a deeper, more useful bench, we may not have been so worn out (maybe) in the 2nd half of the Guatemala match.
So I guess that his passes that earned us 2 PKs in tournaments - to EJ against Argentina in the Copa America and to Jozy against Italy in the Confederations Cup - don't count as assists. I was never really sure on what constitutes an assist, but those were two pretty important passes that ended in goals for the USA just the same.
Customarily, isn't the player who draws the PK awarded an assist when another taker scores it? In that case, I would think that Benny would be credited an "MLS assist" for the pass that led to the PK.
Neither does Chandler's to Johnson v Slovenia or Dempsey to Donovan v A&B. Jozy to Wondo in GC2011 in the 6 when Wondo skied it over the goal or Jozy to Shea v Honduras where Shea tripped over the ball also don't count as assists. 3:01
I'm a big advocate of Feilhaber and I don't think it's a question of talent. I just think he does not suit the style Klinsmann is keen on playing. Klinsmann wants more out of his midfielders, on offense and defense. Feilhaber just provides the offense.
Hey I found another almost goal and assist by Benny: almost goal: almost assist: http://www.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2012-07-14-ne-v-tor/highlights ^^^ 5:45
I'd like to see him called into camp again to compete but I think he'll have to start playing out of his mind good for the remainder of the MLS campaign for that to happen. I think the same applies to Adu and a few others. Our midfield is just a really crowded area at the moment and he needs to start showing JK that he can bring something to the table that will be of value to the team.
Well, I think there is room for an out and out creative type in the middle. Torres is the only player in JK's pool who even comes close, and he doesn't really play too many killer through balls. If healthy, Holden can do some of that. And Demspey and LD can as well. But I really think we could use a midfield maestro type coming off the bench, and I think Benny is the best we have at the moment.
I keep hearing the line that the midfield is packed... Well, yeah... Packed with defensive midfielders. That's nothing against Bradley or Jones. Those two are tidy on the ball, and can spray around some great passes, but they're not the kind of guys who we should ask to crack the defense consistently and provide a creative spark from the central midfield. The current set up is pretty much a 4-3-3 shape Donovan and Dempsey in the front free with one other forward ( either Altidore or Gomez). Edu is stationed behind Bradley and Jones in a defensive midfield role. With Donovan and Dempsey so high up, we need someone in the central trio who can bring the ball forward, and release Donovan and Dempsey to be runners and not always be creators dropping to the ball. I don't know who that guy might be, although there are definitely candidates. Benny Feilhaber is clearly creative and tidy with the ball, but he seems to be better off the bench and struggles with the speed of play in the first 45 minutes. Sacha Kljestan is, for me, one of the biggest snubs of the Klinsmann era. The guy has been in good form for the Belgian champions and receives good reviews from all parties concerned ( players, fans, coach(es)). Joe Corona was in a similar role for the Olympic Qualifying squad. I'd do something like this: Same as the current set up, just an actual attacking midfielder in the central trio.
If you want to know what Revs fans think of Benny this season, seems pretty evenly split in the New England sub-forum here between the view that Benny has been a major disappointment and the view that he's actually been quite good but has been hampered by his teammates' poor finishing and his team's tactical set-up: https://www.bigsoccer.com/community/threads/failhaber.1949027/
Let's just say that Benny was shooting on frame from distance. Very good for the Revolution, who have 2-3 guys who can do something with the rebound when the opposing MLS GK is unable to catch the ball. I think that is true for the USMNT but JK doesn't.
I disagree with this. Benny is a game changer and has proven it. His contributions don't always show up in the stats. He 'sets the table' for the attack. His contributions are controlling possession in the midfield and creating attacking opportunities. He is not the kind of player that usually will get an assist, but he will get second assists. And this play wouldn't count for an assist either and is a good example of the kind of play FB offers. Without FB this play does not happen. 0:39 in this video
Lets also not forget the wonderful pass that helped lead to the penalty in this match I think Feilhaber should at LEAST get a chance with the full team with Donovan and Dempsey and Bradley and the like. We need an attacking midfielder in that central midfield, and Klinsmann doesn't seem to like any of the options we've got. I'm not saying they're amazing, but they're better than having three defensive midfielders.