FAO Glory hunters.

Discussion in 'England Rivalries' started by vietnamredstar, Feb 26, 2008.

  1. sublicon

    sublicon Member

    RBNY, Fulham FC
    United States
    May 28, 2006
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The more you talk, the less intelligent you seem.
     
  2. BoltonMassiv

    BoltonMassiv Member

    Mar 18, 2008
    Bolton
    Club:
    Bolton Wanderers FC
    That's good especially since im not trying to impress you:)
     
  3. FNU

    FNU BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Mar 6, 2007
    Monte Vesuvio
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    The funny thing about some American fans is:
    on one hand, Americans are proud of their history, especially the American revolution and the beating of the red coats, and all the other English bashing;

    on the other hand, they support English clubs, bringing in more money for the Prem.

    I've lived in the US for most of my life, I support my family's city and birth city. I support Italia and follow the US, and for following the MLS, I guess NYRB since I lived in NY most of my life but I don't like how the team has turned into a marketing tool for a shit drink, so I'm thinking maybe the Revs. are more to my liking.

    But back to gloryhunters, living in or outside of the league's country, is it so hard to support a club where your family is from? At least you'll have ties to a club that are respectable. How many Americans are of British lineage? Most Americans are Irish, German, Italian, Hispanic, etc. For a minimum, at least attend ONE game of your club of choice. I think that's fair.

    Gloryhunters are going to ruin the game as a whole, and make the game into a caste system with no middle ground.
     
  4. DoctorK

    DoctorK New Member

    Jan 8, 2002
    NorthBank, Riverbend
    Huh? If by British-American you mean those with English, Scottish, Welsh or Scotch-Irish heritages then you're talking about the single largest ethnic group in the United States.

    If you're a NYer and a soccer fan, you should support your local MLS team (not Boston's for f sake). If you can't do that, you shouldn't lecture others on what team/s they should follow.
     
  5. FNU

    FNU BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Mar 6, 2007
    Monte Vesuvio
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I now live in Boston. NYRB don't even play in NY. :rolleyes: Maybe if they were still the Metros, but like I mentioned, they're now a walking ad.

    I guess I should be more specific and say English heritage. Irish aren't British btw.
     
  6. DoctorK

    DoctorK New Member

    Jan 8, 2002
    NorthBank, Riverbend
    You're the one who used the term "British." You don't seem to know much about the Scotch-Irish/Ulster-Scots. Many of them, especially those living in Northern Ireland, do indeed consider themselves "British." Following your logic, Americans of this ethnicity should follow follow the Gers. I'm not disagreeing with you on this logic, but I think you're grossly underestimating the number of Americans who do indeed have English ancestry. But because the vast majority of those families came here in such an early wave of migration, at a time that preceded the emergence of football by a century or more, there isn't the obvious link with a club, say, a Neapolitan would have.

    New York represents the region, not a state. You live in Boston now, so you have every reason to support the Revs. The metromorphosis/rebranding gives you all the more reason (my best friend was living in Chicago three years ago and became a Fire fan; I understand), but your initial post on the subject made it seem that you were a NYer who had a problem with Red Bull. The later fact you add about where you live now has everything to do with your willingness to support the Revs, which initially seemed random if not unpatriotic (excuse the term) to the region that reared you.
     
  7. FNU

    FNU BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Mar 6, 2007
    Monte Vesuvio
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I know about Northern Ireland and the history of the region. A lot of Scots in America actually do support a Scottish club, mostly Gers or Celtic but whatever.

    I retracted the term British, since we're talking about Prem. teams, it's just that English isn't technically a nationality. Those Americans who can trace their roots to England or an English city, then all the more reason to support a club from wherever that may be. I just don't agree with glory hunting, that doesn't mean every American or whoever that supports a big club is a glory hunter. This is a case by case question. A lot of "glory hunters" are young from my observation, it's too bad they don't really care about their roots and do some research to make a connection to have something to be really proud of. To those who actually do this, I salute you.

    As I mentioned, if there's no connection to a club, the least a fan can do is attend a game before they die. Then maybe a connection can be established with other fans and the city.

    I only support one club, but I'll follow the Revs. as the "local" club I suppose. I really don't follow much MLS as it is, but I do know I can't follow or cheer for NY anymore after they were bought out. I would like to see Altidore go to Europe though and like the plans of the new NY arena. I think another factor to my preference is that they play in NJ. Is the new arena going to be in NY? I wish the MLS was set up like other leagues, and they include the USL clubs on top of it.
     
  8. DoctorK

    DoctorK New Member

    Jan 8, 2002
    NorthBank, Riverbend
    I completely agree. The person who started this thread was just insulting all Septics who support English, presumably Premiership, sides, not taking into account the subtleties you mention, like roots and/or experience.
     
  9. BoltonMassiv

    BoltonMassiv Member

    Mar 18, 2008
    Bolton
    Club:
    Bolton Wanderers FC
    Hahahahahaha, I've never seen something so stupid in all my time on this site, or on any site.
    Don't worry you also won both World Wars and Vietnam! Great work boys.

    You do realise that most of the American city names were taken from English Town/City names from where people migrated.
     
  10. BoltonMassiv

    BoltonMassiv Member

    Mar 18, 2008
    Bolton
    Club:
    Bolton Wanderers FC
    And err English is a nationality, you prat. Great Britain is just the name for part of the Kingdom the Queen rules, the island that England is part of.
     
  11. BlackburnRover

    BlackburnRover New Member

    Sep 10, 2007
    M6
    Woah, I might have a British passport but you're denying my human right to a nationality under Article 15 of Universal Declaration of Human Rights. I'm English OK ;)
     
  12. Catfish

    Catfish Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Chicago
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Exactly....Of course English is a nationality.
    Go to Scotland and tell them their British...you
    will more than likely get your ass kicked.
     
  13. FNU

    FNU BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Mar 6, 2007
    Monte Vesuvio
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
  14. FNU

    FNU BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Mar 6, 2007
    Monte Vesuvio
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Actually I've been, and they also say they're British. More so Gers fans though.
     
  15. FNU

    FNU BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Mar 6, 2007
    Monte Vesuvio
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I retracted the term British and meant English. City names doesn't mean people today are English or of English heritage. Have you ever been to the States? A small percentage of the population could probably trace back their ancestry to England. Where the hell are you going with that anyways? What does WW and Vietnam have to do with this? Anyways, I made my point, and I think you missed it.
     
  16. BlackburnRover

    BlackburnRover New Member

    Sep 10, 2007
    M6
    Well to get technical, the term nationality is used to refer to citizenship in that link and there is no such thing as an English citizen I agree. But nationality and citizenship are not wholy the same, although we generally consider it to be the case, it is possible to be a national of an ethnic/political/social group without being a citizen. Common misconception though ... and more importantly it's got nothing to do with Glory Hunters;)

    And I'm still English.
     
  17. pookspur

    pookspur Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Indiana
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    actually, nationality, technically, is a cultural, and not an administrative, construct.

    there is an english nation, whether or not there is an english state.
     
  18. Catfish

    Catfish Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Chicago
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    We honeymooned in Edinburgh and didn't meet or chat with one person (mostly
    average townspeople...some college educated and some blue collar,
    who said they were British...they often corrected us, "I'm Scottish. or
    "We're Scots!"
     
  19. DoctorK

    DoctorK New Member

    Jan 8, 2002
    NorthBank, Riverbend
    FNU, as I said, I generally agreed with your point, but on this you are way off base. A rather large percentage of Americans can trace back ancestry to England. The last census was in 2000, and English ranked third in ethnicity checked, behind Irish (50% of them Protestant, btw) and German. But the numbers could even be much higher, as so many who just identify as Americans (no hyphen) because their families have been here so long don't (sometimes can't) cite their English ancestry.

    Surely you've heard of "WASPs" (White Anglo Saxon Protestants). Not exactly a minority group here, FNU. But those families rarely can trace themselves back to a county, much less a city or village, and their families came over here more than a century ago (often two), that is, well before football emerged in its modern form.

    I have definite romanticized fondness for Rangers & Oxford United, though I've only been outside Ibrox & the Kassam, due to my ancestry (though those Presbyterian and Methodist forebears would probably be furious with me for wasting my time on such a Devil's business as football!). But I have a deep love for the Arsenal since the first time I saw a match at Highbury (while living in London).

    And Catfish, it really depends on neighborhood. I've met loads of Scots who identify themselves as Brits, as well as loads of Northern Irish (esp. Ulster-Scots) who prefer that term.

    As Benedict Anderson says, a nation is an imaginary community. The same can be said for a football club, as our communal sense is based on the imaginary "we" that allows supporters to celebrate and suffer with their sides.

    I think it rather absurd to accuse American soccer fans of being "glory hunters," as it betrays an ignorance of the various links many of us have for personal or family reasons. You're much more likely to meet a glory hunting ManU fan from Brighton than you are from New York.
     
  20. FNU

    FNU BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Mar 6, 2007
    Monte Vesuvio
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Different story in Glasgow I suppose.
     
  21. FNU

    FNU BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Mar 6, 2007
    Monte Vesuvio
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I think you hit it on the nail and clarified what I should have elaborated on. Those of English ancestry seem to identify themselves as American and nothing else for the most part, but don't quote me. I guess in their defense it is a little harder to trace back your family that long ago.

    Whereas Irish,Scot,German, Spanish, Italian Americans, etc. usually cite their heritage. I usually have this argument with Italian Americans who support the big 3, when a majority of them have roots in the South of Italy.
     
  22. DoctorK

    DoctorK New Member

    Jan 8, 2002
    NorthBank, Riverbend
    Since I married into a family with Neapolitan roots, I have a bit of fondness for your Azzurri, too, FNU (surely no "glory hunting" cheering Napoli!). As a soccer addict who can't watch impartially, any sense of a connection enhances my interest! ;)
     
  23. FNU

    FNU BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Mar 6, 2007
    Monte Vesuvio
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    When I said technically, I was making a reference to a legal standpoint.
     
  24. FNU

    FNU BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Mar 6, 2007
    Monte Vesuvio
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Funny you mention that and being a Gunner fan; our DG has mentioned our current project is based off the Arsenal model.
     
  25. pookspur

    pookspur Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Indiana
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    fair enough. but, then, supporting a football club is a bit more 'cultural' than 'legal', as well, eh?

    ;)
     

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