Fallwell

His death doesn't sadden me in the slightest. He was a truly reprehensible person who turned a message of unconditional love and forgiveness into one of ugliness, hate, and intolerance.

It's worth emphasizing that the biggest reason that right-wing criticisms of the "loony fringe" of the Democratic Party ring hollow is that Jerry Falwell and his minions enjoyed a breathtaking level of influence on the Republican Party.

The fact that he lived five times as long as Ryan White did is proof positive than there is no justice in the world.

 

Doesn't make Al Sharpton nor Jesse Jackson any less reprehensible. You can dance on Falwell's grave all you want (I wasn't a big fan), as long as I can celebrate the "Reverend" burning in Hell when that time comes...

 

Falwell

You also attacked Falwell elsewhere over AIDS:
https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=11553665
While I disagreed with Falwell on both religious & social issues, AIDS was & is being spread by promiscuous gays having unprotected sex & junkies sharing needles. That's not Falwell's fault. If infected people did not donate blood, Ryan White would not have contracted AIDS. If there was truly biblical justice in this world, only barebackers & needle sharers would get AIDS.

 

I'm no fan of either of those two, but even if you add their worst self-promoting antics and shakedowns up, and even if you consider their public statements re: Taunua Brawley and the Duke incident, you still fall short of the reprehensible behavior of Jerry Falwell.

Falwell urged his followers to purchase gold Kruggerands to support the aparthed regime in South Africa. He personally flew down to South African to congratulate Botha on his victory in an election in the mid-80s.

 

Re: Falwell

Most of us, if we make a bad decision, don't end up with a death sentence. Junkies are basically people who made a few really bad decisions and thus became trapped in a terrible, tragic lifestyle. And I'd like to meet the person who has always made good decisions when it comes to sex.

 

Re: Falwell

Gay men are promiscuous not because they're gay; they're promiscuous because they're men. Do you really believe that straight men would behave better if they had access to as many willing partners? If your answer is yes, then I'm going to assume that you never actually set foot on a college campus.

Regardless, Falwell and his ilk also opposed condom distribution, safe sex programs, needle distribution, and sex education. They had no interest in protecting anyone.

And finally, regardless of how one feels about promiscuity, it's severe to believe that it should be punished with a death sentence.

 

Re: Falwell

I'm not on here to defend Falwell.

However, no one is being "punished" with a death sentence for contracting an STD. It is well known what the risks of promiscuity are, and if people brush that off and act that way anyway, that's the bed they made (no pun intended).

Is it not someone's own fault if they start smoking at this day in age and develops lung cancer? Wait don't answer that, you may blame tobacco companies because that person smokes.

Is it not someone's own fault if they down a fifth of vodka and drives his car off a bridge?

 

Re: Falwell

For one, I'd say that the impulse to have sex is a bit greater than the impulse to drink a fifth of vodka.

I'll definitely agree that there is no excuse for a reasonably educated person to have unprotected sex in this day and age. However, AIDS rampaged through the gay community in the early years because, up until then, promiscuity had no consequences. You couldn't seriously expect a gay man to protect himself against a disease that he didn't know existed--especially one as unique as HIV infection. Falwell's response was to condemn them.

Furthermore, Falwell claimed that AIDS was God's punishment against gays and lesbians, not against promiscuity.

The tobacco industry dug its own grave by lying before Congress and while under oath, as well as manipulating the content of its products to ensure maximum nicotene intake. I think smoking is idiotic. Now, raise your hand if you've never, ever tried a cigarette.

 

Re: Falwell

<Raises hand>

Cigars I've done, but I've actually been able to resist the temptations of that particular branch of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy...

 

So racism is different depending on which end of the power structure you reside?

 

That's a different subject, but to answer your question, yes, it is different. It's not *right* in either circumstance.

But it's not just the racism. Falwell told his followers that they should buy Kruggerands to support the apartheid regime. In a small but noteworthy way, he worked to keep Botha in power and black persons out of power.

On P&CE, somebody compared this with Jane Fonda in the 60s, and that's a reasonably valid comparison, except that Fonda wasn't middle-aged when she made her idiotic, short-sighted, and disturbing trip to North Vietnam.

 

Re: Falwell

Close enough.

 

True, except Fonda’s treasonous act affected all races in the US, not just one.

 

Fonda's only defense is that she was young and dumb. During Falwell's dumb youth, he criticized the civil rights movement. During his 40s and 50s, he raised money for the apartheid regime in South Africa and believed that gay people deserved to die of AIDS, whereas Jane Fonda wore leg-warmers and did jumping jacks. And when Falwell was in the twilight of life and should have been dispensing wisdom to the younger generation, instead he blamed lesbians and feminists for 9-11; Jane Fonda's biggest crime in old age has been to star in crappy movies.

The more I remember about Jerry Falwell, the deeper my contempt for him grows.

 

Falwell & AIDS

Your first point may be true, but don't some studies estimate that it takes about 200 incidences of unprotected sex for the virus to be transmitted?
I don't think junkies make a few bad decisions. Drug addiction is generally the same bad decision made repeatedly, or a progression through the milieu.
Lastly, my mother is too busy to meet with you.

What about failure to use condoms? AFAIK, don't female hookers now require condom usage? Are some gay men really that stupid?

Do you honestly believe that people in the USA did not have access to condoms or clean needles because of Falwell or those sharing his beliefs?

 

Re: Falwell & AIDS

I'm not doubting this, but I also haven't heard it.

Now, I have had very little contact with the drug scene, but I've known a few junkies/recovered junkies in my time, and almost every one of them insisted that heroin grabs you the first time or two you take it. After a point, injection of heroin ceases to be much of a decision.

I have no idea what hookers require, and I don't doubt that plenty of gay men behave stupidly (judging from the number of unwanted pregnancies, it appears that stupid behavior is not the domain of gay men). But keep in mind that Falwell and the Christian Right also oppose sex education.

But enough about Ted Haggard . . .

 

Re: Falwell & AIDS

Not true. It should be taught at home. You must be talking about the Christian right opposing passing out condoms.

 

Re: Falwell

Isn't that typical liberal thinking? I'm not responsible for my behavior?

 

Sounds like you're in good company.

 

Re: Falwell

I have done no such thing. However, look at the research on STDs, pregnancies, etc. in areas where abstinence is taught and safe sex practices are not. People make stupid, reckless decisions all the time; people who live in areas where Falwell's "teach sex ed at home" method reigns make those decisions more frequently.

If your old roomate acquired HIV infection, how would you react? Would you note that he brought this result on himself and then sympathize with him, or would you call the infection "God's punishment for sin"?

And FeverNova1, I know you're kidding with the Fred Phelps link, but his rhetoric is a hell of a lot closer to Falwell's "9-11 was our fault" rhetoric than mine.

Let's talk about our current administration for a moment. We have a president with a DUI to his name, a history of alcoholism, and a nearly certain history of use of cocaine and other drugs. We have a first lady who killed her boyfriend in an auto accident when she was young. We have a vice president who has multiple DUIs to his name and who blasted his friend in the face with a shotgun.

Some of these events happened accidentally, some could have been prevented with a little more care and awareness, and some resulted from unquestionably bad decisions made be people who should have known better. (Is unsafe sex a worse decision than the decision to drive drunk?) As far as the DUIs go, clearly Bush and Cheney made the bad decision repeatedly. (Unless you think that Bush got caught the first and only time he hopped in a car after a night of boozing it up.) If I wanted to extend the scope a bit, I could add the multiple infidenilties of Guiliani and Gingrich, etc.

Does Bush deserve AIDS for the cocaine use? How about hepatitis? Does Cheney deserve AIDS for his multiple DUIs? Of course not. Of course not. Tickets, rehab, perhaps jail time, sure, but not a death sentence.

I'm an athiest, but I obviously admire the teachings of Jesus, who realized that humans are flawed creatures who make mistakes, in spite of their most valiant efforts. He felt that the proper response to transgressions was forgiveness, sympathy, and help. Falwell, on the other hand, elevated homosexuality to near the top of "sins" against God, and he spent decades damning those very people. I see nothing at all to admire about this man.