Wow. That's genuinely impressive. I've rarely seen someone miss the point so completely. You should be proud of yourself, I'd hate to try and have an argument with you.
Please do tell. What was the point when you said.... So tell us why Americans can't TRULY be considered supporters until they fly to England and watch a match? I'm all ears.
Why do you care what they think? But whats the big deal about going to matches? You will enjoy yourself and a flight to London isn't much different then going to the west coast.
Look at it this way. Every dollar you put towards a team with which you have NO connection and NO reason to follow except an arbitrary selection is a dollar taken away from your local team. That's why plastic fans are ruining the game. For example, in my home town, our club gets an average gate of about 4,000 but there's probably at least another 20,000 people in the area who would profess to be "supporters" of Liverpool, Man Utd or Wolves amongst other clubs. Of these 20,000, a small proportion probably do travel to games regularly, particularly the Wolves contingent. However, most of them, like their brethren across the globe, will sit on their sofa or in the pub to watch their team's games (although, strangely, they'll all turn up whenever the local boys win something or get to a final) and maybe buy a replica shirt or scarf every so often. Most of these people have no reason for following the team they do, other than a shallowness of character and a strange belief that even the most arbitrary reason for "picking" a team to follow confers upon them the status of a true supporter. That (and a lot of armchair punditry) is the extent of their "support" (I'm assuming a lot of posters on this site fall into this category as well) No season tickets, no half time raffle entry, no drinks bought at half time, no chanting from the stands, no trekking halfway across the continent to watch their side play a routine game. In short, no real commitment to the club. No sticking their neck out, no money where their mouth is. Even the money they put into watching games on TV goes mostly to Rupert Murdoch and anyway, the fees for TV rights are worked out independently of subscription sales so it would not matter a jot if they stopped watching Sky TV or the equivalent on other countries. There are clubs out there (probably in your town or region) which need those few dollars you spent on watching a foreign team a lot more. Arsenal FC won't die if you stop watching them. Your country's league very well may do if you don't start watching them. If you dropped dead tomorrow or (more likely) switched allegiance to some other club, your fave Prem team would not give a flying ********. You're expendable and easily replaceable by some other starry eyed chump from the USA or Korea. How can a man from California understand a Merseyside or North London derby? If you've not lived it, if you've never even been to a game, you'll never understand it I'm afraid. The truly sad thing is that you have a good standard of professional football in your own country. While you're all sat at home pretending to care about Arsenal's latest game, thousands of real American fans are out there building up traditions and memories in the MLS and USL, truly getting the experience of supporting a club. There's nothing to stop you watching Premiership (or other European football) on TV and enjoying it. Just show some character. Those glory boys among you are just plain shallow. Even those of you who've "chosen" more obscure teams just to be different must realize that your support is nothing more than a casual interest or an unhealthy obsession. Help world football develop by following your local side. Then you can watch your favourite "EPL" side and get the far more rewarding experience of following a club in the flesh. Trust me, it's for the good of the game and it'll be a hell of a lot more fun.
Ladies and Gentlemen God speaks to us from Shrewsbury, England tonight. Look at the other side of the coin, plastics are helping further the game. Why is who a particular person chooses to support any of your business? I have a neighbor down the street who supports the Yankees and he's never even been to New York. Am I upset? Not really. Why does where a particular fan chooses to enjoy the game a problem for you? I could care less if a person sits on their couch or sits in the seat next to me. Do you want them not to buy a replica shirt or scarf? Is that not money going to the club that you complained about earlier? Who bestowed the power upon you to call a person shallow for supporting a team? Why are they not a true supporter? It's tough to have season tickets when you live in another country. Does that mean every fan of a team who lives in another country has a shallow character? What about a lifetime Londoner who moved to America for work? Is he no longer a true Spurs/Arsenal/Fulham fan? I would like some answers as this whole spiel intrigues me... Of course clubs need the money but how people choose to spend their hard earned dollars is their business. You may be right about not understanding the ferocity of the rivalries having not lived it, but it's not a hard thing for Americans to understand. We have some of the best rivalries in all of sports in our country. Yankees/Red Sox, Michigan/Ohio State, USC/Notre Dame, Bears/Packers all have just as much ferocity as any Derby in England. Actually, the majority of the MLS season is played when the EPL is on summer break. MLS has to compete with Major League Baseball. So you are calling every American who supports an EPL side shallow? What if they have a special connection with a side like I do with Newcastle? Am I shallow for supporting Newcastle? I go to Galaxy games all the time does that make me less shallow? Why can't you support your local side and an EPL side? Is that a rule somewhere? I must know if you approve of how I live my life...
Like I said, man, there's nothing wrong with you "supporting" an "EPL" team casually for the sake of following a team but at least acknowledge that your support is nothing more than a casual interest. It's when people get all upset and try to claim that they're a die hard fan because they watch all the games on TV that they start to look ridiculous. True: it is hard to get season tickets for the big 4. But then why should it be easy for someone from a completely different country or city to get a season ticket for a particular team? That's just a cop out, mate. The fact is you could walk up to pretty much any ground in England (or the US) outside of the big 4 and buy a half season ticket right now. The only reason it's hard to get tickets for the big 4 is because half the world supports them. You've got Norwegians coming over every week to watch Liverpool for Christ's sake. Half the Home Counties head up to Old Trafford each week. These are all plastic fans who decided to follow football now that it's trendy again and they're keeping genuine fans of those clubs out. If everyone supported their local team, like they did back in the day, then there would be none of these problems. Four teams would lose out on a bit of revenue but still be hugely well supported. 88 other Enlgish clubs (at least) would go from struggling to survive to having a realistic chance of success. The whole league would be far more competitive and exciting. If you can't see why eschewing your country's league to be an armchair fan of a big money Premiership team is shallow then, geez, I don't know what to say really...... As for your assertion that plastic help develop the game? They help a few clubs develop but they're actually killing the game for most other clubs. And yes I think it's fine to support an EPL team and an MLS side as I said at the end of my post. Just remember that your local American team has a lot more relevance to you and ultimately will mean a lot more to you than some randomly selcted EPL team, no matter how genuine you think you are.
I totally agree with u Salop, in my opinion an American supporting a team from Europe is more of a hobby.I never been to England i just chose arsenal because at the time they were one of the best teams in England.I love Arsenal but unless u live there or been to matches u have no idea about the true meaning of supporting a club. I think its funny when Arsenal fans on these boards who never touched one foot in England make fun of Spurs fans....i mean i know theyre archrivals but thats like a Yankees fan from London making fun of the Red Sox. I dont mean to bash Arsenal fans its just one example of many team's fans on these boards. I want to know how people in England feel about people in the States supporting thier club.....do they enjoy the interest from abroad fans or do they think its just a fad?
Right. So if we choose a team that we can actually, you know, WATCH that makes us shallow. I really don't know if you could be more smug and pretentious. We aren't talking about religion here. We are talking about a GAME. While it's great that your life is defined by your football squad, that doesn't mean that every other person in the world needs to be like you. Shouldn't you be protesting the inclusion of foreign players in your sacred EPL?
A casual interest? So unless you live in England, go the games, have a season ticket, and cheer for some crap 3rd tier side you can't be more than a casual fan? You missed the point. You said you have to have season tickets to be a "true fan." I was making the point that it would be tough for someone who lives in another country to have season tickets. Meaning you are rendering every fan of a team from another country a "shallow" supporter. Why would I do that though??? I live in the United States. I don't need season tickets to an English team. There's the same problem in Ireland. With teams supporting EPL teams over Eircom league teams. How are you going to change it? But you can't have both right? The thing you are missing is that MLS and EPL are in different seasons. Americans can have both. They're helping spread interest in the game in my opinion. Once again, different seasons.
That's exactly what I'm saying. To you guys, it is just a game, a bit of entertainment. Seems to me that you follow the EPL out of interest and maybe follow a particular team casually, to make it more interesting, nothing more than that. In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with that, like I said. The people I was criticizing are the people who get all vexed when their dedication to their club is questioned, as if they're diehard fans. Like J Mac said, for an American, following an English club is just a bit of a hobby. When you pretend it's anythin more than that you start to look a bit silly. Add in the implications of your merchandise sales taking money away from your own league and creating a huge gap between the big 4 in England and the rest of the league and you'll see why we get a bit annoyed by all this. And what have foreign players in the EPL got to do with it? When's this been a nationality issue? I live in Brum, and regularly watch WBA games, where there's a shedload of Indian/Jamaican fans. Arsenal also have loads of foreign fans from the North London area. In terms of foreign players, the list of legends is too long. The difference between these people and you is that they've actually CONTRIBUTED to the club with their support in the stadium or skills on the field, seen?
I don't really see how you've raised any issues here or answered any of my points. If anything, you've really just proved my point. You've just said that you only watch EPL on TV when MLS isn't on and follow a team to make things interesting when MLS isn't on. Sounds pretty casual to me, claiming that you're anyhting more than an armchair fan is pretty dumb.
Good post, mate, nice to know someone on these boards gets me. People in England's views on American fans of their clubs would differ wildly. For example, a lot of the older generation, particualrly at clubs like Arsenal, probably take a dim view as it's symptomatic of the commercialization of the game. Fans of lower league clubs would probably be quite amused, probably really use a couple of extra shirt sales. There's also a lot of armchair fans, some of whom are equally as plastic as some of the guys on this board.
why do Americans need to pick a team to support at all? Couldn't you just watch the games and leave it at that? OK, maybe over time you might get drawn to a certain team, but there's no reason why anyone over there needs to pick a team to be their team for life. I don't actually buy into the idea that you have to physically see your team play to be a fan, but there's a big difference between the kind of annoying armchair fan who pipes up to revel in the glory when his club are winning, but never says a word otherwise, and the kind of fan who has a large degree of "emotional involvement" (for want of a better phrase) whenever his team plays, but for whatever reason seldom if ever makes it to a match.
We often have Korean film crews outside the Madejski, along with a number of Korean fans now that Seol Ki-Hyeon plays for us. People are happy with it even if we know we'll almost certainly never see them again if Seol was to leave.
I don't think Americans are required to pick a team whatsoever. If they want to watch matches in general, that's great. If they want to watch matches until they find a team they feel they can associate with, for whatever reason, that's fine too. I agree that no one likes a bandwagon fan. But I think, as a general rule, if you spend a considerable amount of time posting on a message board about your football team, you are more than just a bandwagon fan.
We get you. You're a sophomoric nativist. Ahhh the dreaded "commercialization" of the game. God forbid that the BUSINESS of football were to actually MAKE MONEY. This isn't art. It's sport. Lots of armchair fans who live in London as well. So what? You apparently think that you are the barometer by which sports fans should be measured. As long as they are as "dedicated" as you they are worthy fans. If not then they are just fakes and shallow people. The fact that you think you can judge someone based on their sports allegiances speaks volumes about you.
Well you mean other than the fact that it costs about 3-4 times as much and most American sports fans don't travel across the country to watch a match either.
what is the purpose of a sports team though? If it's to make money then there is something seriously wrong with the priorities of the club.
hmm..i agree ..its a business and the business is mainly funded by kids and lovers of the sport who pay to watch it..so its hard to make that decision as to "who to please?" in the priorities..i mean you channel the sport towards kids and upcoming soccer players,also fans.. when do you cater to them..and not the rich egotistical players? ps. dot dot dot
What do you think the purpose of a sports team is? As a business its priority is to make money. It's FUNCTION is to provide entertainment to its customers. That's how it makes money.
When did I say any of those things? You're really starting to bug me with your pretentious bull shit. I don't just watch the EPL when MLS isn't on. I'm a fan of the MLS but the EPL is more interesting and has better quality of play. I'm a fan of Newcastle United. I don't just follow them casually to make things interesting. I'm a fan just like you are of your team. What do you hope to accomplish by coming in here and calling American EPL fans shallow? Are you hoping to intimidate us into cheering for a crap 3rd tier side like yours?
the purpose of a sports club is to be as competitive as possible. Money raised is (or should be) used to achieve that goal. Making money in itself should never be the goal of any sports club.
Bit of a false dilemma. I happen to be a season ticket holder at Toronto FC, the local MLS team, but I still consider myself a Chelsea supporter. As for the local team bit, what do you have to say to a fan who's local team is hardly better than a good highschool team? There's a club in my actual city (I don't live in Toronto) but they are extremely poor. As in, the worst team in a league that has like 10 teams, all composed of guys who probably couldn't hack it in college in the US. Miles worse than Shrewsbury, I guarantee it. Should I then have to suffer through that so that I can call myself a 'true fan'? Btw, I agree with you to some extent. I won't understand the full meaning of London derby. The FA cup doesn't mean as much to me as it does to someone who has grown up immersed in the tradition. But nor do I pretend to understand or 'feel' these things. Does this make me 'less' of a fan, or simply a different one? I think you have some valid points, but I also don't think you can assign yourself the role of moral barometer. I would never dream of accusing, say, someone from the UK of being less of a 'true' hockey fan b/c they've never been to a game or don't support their local hockey team.