Land is always an issue unless you are building way off in the middle of nowhere, and that wouldn't really work in Portland at all. Land in the city is expensive no matter where you are, but lets say that some big warehouse district goes completely under in Portland, and the Timbers pick it up for pennies on the dollar. Lets also say that they are building a stadium that works for them now, should work for them in 5-10 years, and will be able to be remodeled to work for them in the 20-30 year range. I would estimate that they would do something on the order of a Red Bull Arena (25k) or a Home Depot Center (27k), and leave room/supports to be able to expand the stadium at a later date. The current deal with the city means that Jeld-Wen will be the stadium for something like 20 years. The only way that changes is if the Timbers can negotiate a better deal with the city, which is unlikely. If, at some point in the future, they decide to renovate the old section, it is likely a big enough project that they would likely have to do something like hold the games down at Autzen Stadium (University of Oregon, in Eugene, about a 2 hour drive each way) for a year or two.
My guess would be 30,000, with expansion to 40k or so. But I don't expect to see it anytime soon. More likely they'd build up and over the adjacent road/streetcar on the east side. Nobody really wants to do it because that side of the stadium used to be somewhat open, and you could see games going on when you passed by in the MAX. It was a nice layout that made the park feel open and accessible to the neighborhood, while still making it prohibitive for freeloaders. No one wants to change it, but it's literally the only place that the stadium can go if it wants to expand.
they will move before they build onto 18th. This has been gone over time and again. the city won't cave to the (very Rich) MAC club and the (very rich) landowners across from 18th. the Mac club still owns view easements.. it was a condition of sale when the Mac Club sold the stadium to the city that it would remain open. it was the condition the city imposed when the Mac club owned it, and that didn't change when the city bought it. the reason the stadium can't be closed off is that it is Zoned OSd.. Open Space. It is the Park for that whole corner of the city, and as such must in some way be accessible. the compromise made many years ago is that people should be able to look into it. They already stretched that definition with the glass walls on the bar for the swells. if they close off the 18th side (no room anyway) it would violate its zoning. a back wall of a stadium isn't open space. the last time the city changed its master plan it took about 20 years. They have already taken 5 years trying to get a board together to talk about the next 50 year plan. the map shows the OSd zoning in that quarter of the city. note it is only the (green) Stadium and a little piece of the Park blocks in the lower right. (and a little patch of grass in an intersection lower left) won't happen. it would be easier to move. maybe Lincoln High could be torn down. (the light blue RHd zoned block SE of the stadium) Start making noise about how the school isn't earthquake proof.
Once the infrastructure problem is resolved and the tarped off areas of the stadium can be opened, what will capacity be? Also, why don't the seats in the timbers army come down to field level? not only would this add seats, but also improve the look/intimacy of the stadium.
All areas where you would want to buy a ticket are untarped now. There's a tarp in 201, but you don't want to buy those seats. Because the way the stadium is built there's about a six to eight foot wall in front of all of the seats on the north/west stands. I actually wouldn't want more seats below that thing, that wall is amazing for sight lines and pretty much means you'd have to be an idiot to try a pitch invasion. Comes highly recommended.
I was trying to think of a way to say this, and you did it so much better. I will also add that to someone on the field, having the Timbers Army towering over you at the north end would have to feel very imposing.
Thanks for the clarification. I really hope they can figure out a sensible way to expand. 25,000+ looks so much better than 20,000.
I know the neighborhood association (or people in it) was/were hoping for a "build-up" of Lincoln High; not so much an expansion as a rebuild on a smaller footprint, leaving open space for residents. Of course, that would be a sore spot for citizens on the city's east side where some school buildings need real help. Never mind that, if we're comparing apples to apples, the field and track at Lincoln are as "green space" as the stadium and can be accessed. People run on the track all the time. Also, never mind that, just up the hill, is the rather large Washington Park. Also, never mind the open block the MAC owns on the other side of their parking structure. The stance leading to the current situation is hilarious. However, if the MAC drives this, my bleating clearly goes for naught. If the MAC isn't the driver, I'd argue that the open space where the old structure ends (at the team store) is the last of the access points given to the community, if only during store hours. Everything else is blocked off enough that, within a few years, the "out of sight/out of mind" principle takes hold and neighbors will probably not object to a second deck or thereabouts on the east side. At least I can hope.
The city used parks money to buy the original structure, and therefore locked themselves into it being greenspace . The area where the store was was tennis courts with a secondary clubhouse on it. The clubhouse got torn down years ago. In that respect, there isn't much more taken away than was there originally. But the principle has been that citizens could at least look in and see something green for 80 years. Without a deed change, that won't change. I don't know if you have followed the goings on of the Goose Hollow citizens groups, but these folks are movers and shakers. They don't budge much. The big shocker for me is that Peregrine got another 11 games for the Thorns out of the neighborhood agreement.
Nobody can do that unless the Mac club agrees and the deed gets changed. Easier to tear down the Post office and build anew.
Here is a little better view of the stadium in that era, possibly a little earlier, since the old MAC Club is evident. The new clubhouse was built in part with proceeds from the sale of the stadium in 1966, and the old Canopy is still there, so that dates the picture from before 1981. Since the outfield stands are there, and it looks like the field is being torn up, it might be when the original Tartan Turf field went in in 1969 The oregonhistory site says the only major changes to the stadium were the removal of the outfield bleacher, the addition of The Tartan Turf, and the new canopy in 1981-82. Other changes were locker rooms under the stands ( previously, they were in the MAC club.) http://www.oregonencyclopedia.org/e...adium_civic_stadium_pge_park_jeld_wen_field_/ So the fence you see is probably the same one that was there until it was replaced by the 2001 renovation, and it wasn't very high. You could easily see into the stadium over the fence that was there when I moved here around 1990. It also had several view gaps in it when you walked by. Before that era, going back to pictures when there were still tennis courts in the stadium and model T's parked on the street, to after the 2001 renovation, when the current wrought iron fence was installed, there has always been views into the stadium from 18th street. But you still have to Deal with the 2010 good neighbor agreement ( city ordinance 183552), which is the main document, referenced in the city ordinances that transferred management of the stadium from the Portland Parks department to Pregrine LLC in 2012 (city ordinance 185569) which is from after the current fence was installed and includes this clause: (screenshot of the relevant sentence) http://www.northwestdistrictassocia...PGE-Park-Good-Neighbor-Agreement-exhibits.pdf Any closing of that side of the stafium would at a minimum require a change in the city code, and that probably depends on the terms in the original deed of sale from 1966. Since you seem interested, I'll give you a couple places to start, including the predevelopment agreement ( ordinance 183036) which I think includes the folio number for the original deed with the MAC club is will have details like the exact terms of the deed, including right of first refusal on a repurchase if the land is used for anything but a stadium, and the easement for the road between the South stands and the MAC club. The club still owns that and even the footers that hold up that end of the stands. They are all in this section of the city code http://www.portlandonline.com/auditor/index.cfm?c=28184 And the Portland City Club has a PDF of its bulletin from 1966 about purchasing the stadium which goes over the history and makes recommendations on the purchase and outlines the terms in the original negotiations with the club. http://www.pdxcityclub.org/sites/default/files/reports/Measure53_2_1966.pdf Or just google the ordinance numbers I gave you with ' Portland City Ordinace' and follow the other ordinances referenced. You'll have fun for a few dozen hours.
You'd have to be a pretty tall person to see over that old wall. (Look at the size of the people compared to the wall.) Oh, I know about the good neighbor agreement and the requirement for views into the stadium from 18th. The neighborhood hated having that old wall along the sidewalk. Building up on that side doesn't have to block any views from the street. I think the biggest hurdle in building up that side is the removal of the roof over the most expensive seats. That would not go over well, but I'm sure they could come up with a new roof structure that covers both levels.
I alway wonder how they got 35K for the games in 1975. There must have been a lot of standing room and people packed into bleacher seating. And they must have had lots stronger bladders.
Lower lever was all benches I believe. Bleachers on the field. 4k-5k gone to install the suites in 2001. Wider butts nowadays so fewer seats per row (look at the benches and you will see the old number plaques painted over).
They need a new 30,000 seat ss stadium. The pitch is just too small. and they could own it and use real grass. bottom line - fake grass is a dead end.
I appreciate the suggestion, however, no. And yes, I'm intentionally being dismissive. First, I don't have time to argue your factual inaccuracies. Second, spend a couple of hours and read this thread for a current discussion of turf.
Bruce Arena doesn't agree with you on the pitch or the size of it. As to the size of the venue, well, doesn't San Jose play in an 10K college field? Even the new SJ stadium will only seat 18K. To recap... It's a good field four times in one quote. It's the only Turf pitch in the Nation designed for soccer.
You need a different set of skills. The slightest touch send the ball scurrying. & it pinballs around. No need to pass into space. there is no space & the pass will keep going out of play. On grass the ball will slow down & the player can pick it up in stride. So now you got a terrific soccer play you can't utilize on plastic. On grass you got to use a stronger push on the ball. on plastic a slight touch. I've seen games on there. Bruce Arena has his opinion. Its the players who have to adjust.
Here is a grass field. I think players have to adapt to the grass pitches , too And there is more variation between a bluegrass pitch and a short cut Bermuda grass pitch than there is between grass and the Turf at Jeld Wen. Add crown, and it is much worse.
That actually is what Jeld Wen was like before they put Turf in and played football and soccer on it all fall. But our British friends have been growing pristine grass fields for a century and a half... Like this EPL pitch. Pretty sure the ball didn't scurry away this day.