It's definitely more than two hours, especially if you're going in the general vicinity of the posted speed limit (say under 10 MPH over). Probably more like 3 to 3 1/2.
I understand the Chivas-USA part of it...billionaire owner, willing to put up the cash for a stadium, good market to put it in with San Diego (especially since it is growing and has a huge untapped hispanic market). But the Cleveland part doesn't make sense to me. You don't have billionaire owners, nor a consortium of millionaire ones at that! There is no SSS plan that cannot be sustained without the help of public money, which in my view is going to be a hard sell to a community that has deeper ties to baseball and gridiron (as well as a troubled economy and a migrating population). Maybe the Cleveland team can initially play at the Brown's stadium, and once things get rolling, they can have the SSS plans all settled and built, just like Columbus did when they first had to play at a college stadium, and then later had Crew Stadium. But as someone else mentioned, I guess the bigwigs at MLS HQ are trying to stay away from NFL rent and sorting out better opportunities for the stadium issues. Personally, I would have wanted Philadelphia, Houston, Portland or Seattle to have that second expansion team. I felt that those cities ability to draw big games for U.S. national team games or "the Champions Tour" was in their favor, but I guess the genious officials at MLS thought otherwise. Lack of reliable operating investors is an issue, but investors are always going to be a problem if MLS doesn't soften up the single entity structure of the league. On a sidenote, what are the biggest media markets in the United States? According to the 2000 U.S. population census, its this (* for all MLS clubs and # for proposed cities): * 1) New York * 2) LA * 3) Chicago * 4) DC Area (incl. Virginia, Deleware, Maryland) * 5) Bay Area (incl. San Fran, San Jose, Oakland) # 6) Philadelphia * 7) New England (includes cities of Boston, Lowell, Worcester and Fall River) 8) Detroit * 9) Dallas #10) Houston 11) Atlanta 12) Miami #13) Seattle 14) Phoenix 15) Minneapolis-St. Paul #16) Cleveland #17) San Diego 18) St. Louis *19) Denver 20) Tampa 21) Pittsburgh #22) Portland 23) Cincinnatti 24) Sacramento *25) Kansas City #26) Milwaukee 27) Orlando 28) Indy 29) San Antonio 30) Norfolk, VA 31) Las Vegas *32) Columbus 33) Charlotte 34) New Orleans 35) Salt Lake City http://factfinder.census.gov/servle...01000US&_box_head_nbr=GCT-PH1-R&format=US-10S I mention this because what I hear from Garber all the time is how he wants to expand the league so that money can eventually be made from TV, and hence the more people watching games, the better the tv ratings, thus the better the media picks up on the game. I guess with San Diego and Cleveland, he somewhat achieves this. Would have been happier with Philly and Houston though. p.s. By the way, Rochester ranked in at #46, but with Columbus having a population of 1.5 million, one has to think that neighboring Buffalo (1.1 mill.) and Syracuse (.73 mill.) could give Rochester (1.1 mill.)a reasonable Upstate New York fan base. And I could have sworn that stadium plans are at an advanced stage...all they need is for the okay by MLS to get the stadium momentum rolling to completion.
If Cleveland really is getting an expansion team, then why hasn't the media in Cleveland reported on this yet? Or is Cleveland a decoy for some other city, so Garber can surprise us all.
Having had no discernable soccer presence there recently (besides one game in the Champions tour), it could be conceivably be kept under wraps rather easily.
Thanks for digging up this data. I've been feeling a little unhappy with the continued Cleveland/San Diego talk, but looking at these numbers, I feel a little less unhappy. Sure, I'd LOVE to have a team in Houston. Be much easier for me to go to than Frisco. But if it takes bringing in a couple second-tier cities before owners in cities like Houston will join in, then I'm all for it. Also, being in Texas, I feel some serious jealousy that Cali will have 3, while Texas will still only have 1. But, hey, as long as we get one in Houston before NY gets a second, population and rightful place in the state heierarchy will be fulfilled
I used to make the trip from the southeast suburbs of Rochester to the Cleveland airport in 3.5 hours. The Buffalo airport was 1 hour from my house, and Cleveland's airport is on the SW side of Cleveland. You can hop of I-90, be in Erie in about 1 hr 10 minutes, and then into Cleveland in about 1-1h 20 minutes. Not in rush hour, but on a weekend, it is very doable. Don'f forget the whole Akron-Canton area when determining how many people are in the Cleveland area. That can add a huge amount of people.
Cleveland is a strong sports market. Cleveland sports teams have a loyal and passionate fan base. Cleveland has been home to an indoor franchise for 25 years (Force/Crunch). It is a good size market (2.8mil), and I presume a SSS is going to be built (otherwise MLS wouldn't go there). I think it's a good call. It is essential to get clubs in Seattle, Philly and Houston at some point, but not until there are serious investors and viable stadium arrangements in those larger cities.
Having been born and raised in a Cleveland suburb I'm skeptical. I don't see the support there. To be fair though, there has not been a true pro-soccer team in the city during my lifetime. I remember somebody here saying a while back that they felt Clevelanders would support a top flight team even though PDL failed. I have also heard some stories about good support back in the Stokers days. Looks like we may be finding out in a couple years if it will be a good MLS city or not.
I guess it means either Wolstein and Garofolo found a sugar daddy or City of Cleveland has decided to help with the cost of the stadum.
Surely you jest! Dallas can even average above 8K per game last stats I saw...while were at it, move the Quakes up Hwy 101 about 80 miles.
All this commuting fans stuff seems a bit too optimistic. Everyone here is a pretty big soccer fan, I assume. The sort of people who would travel to games. But how far would you go? If your city doesn't have a team right now, how far would you be willing to drive on a week-in, week-out basis? On an only on weekends basis? On a couple games a season and playoffs basis? I live in the biggest city for hundreds of miles, so it's kinda hard for me to answer this question. But let's say there were a team in Baton Rouge, about 80 miles away from where I live? Would I be a season-ticket holder? Highly doubtful. Assuming I'm not busy with other stuff, I probably wouldn't mind going to weekend games? But what if the games were in Lafayette, about a three hour drive? I doubt I'd go to more than a few games. So be realistic about how far you'd be willing to travel. When we say, "Will fans travel from city x to city y to see soccer?", we're talking about ourselves.
I'd probably be willing to drive an hour. Maybe two. Much more than that would really be pushing it. Living in Houston, that means I'd consider Austin or Beaumont (to name the two closest remotely large cities), as well as anything in the Houston metro area. And Austin's pushing three hours; it's a nice enough drive that I'd be willing to do it on occasion, but I probably wouldn't head up there every weekend. Then again, although I consider myself a fan, I haven't gone to much of anything that actually has been in the Houston metro area, so I may not really be all that representative.
To Marin County? Paying $5 to cross the bridge would be a bear, plus non-existent public transportation. Why not at least San Francisco?