Expansion: 2020, 2021, 2022

Discussion in 'NWSL Expansion' started by WoSoFan, Oct 27, 2019.

  1. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Not surprising at this point. As I mentioned in the other thread, the lingering question of the USSF/NWSL split is really quenching a *lot* of news, not just expansion, and I was told on Twitter by Lauletta that there have been some lingering question marks over Sac itself too.

    At the same time, this development throws a big wrench into further expansion. I would be absolutely shocked if they add three teams in a single year, but we can't get to 14 by 2022 otherwise...
     
  2. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
    I still think Sacramento gets announced before the 2020 season begins(to start in 2021). Just a matter if Atlanta, LAFC or Cincinnati want to join for 2021 as well and get their stuff together in time.
     
  3. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    Sacramento is not joining the league, and now Duffy has resigned to take a job with the Orlando Pride. I suspect there are some serious bad vibes in the NWSL front office: I know next to nothing about Duffy, but my take is that she must have been hugely frustrated to be be president of a league that really struggles to get much of anything done. That Sacramento looked ready to join this year--and then suddenly wasn't--typifies the NWSL. There has been progress, to be sure--attendance jumped significantly this past season and Seattle now has a new French owner, to name two things--but very slow progress as the league continues to work to establish a solid foundation. Expansion, broadcast rights, the draft--all have been issues. The league's relationship with the USSF is ...what? It seems complex, confusing, sticky--not very fruitful for the league, maybe, except that the federation pays the salaries of many of the league's best players. Was Duffy fed up with the relationship; was the federation not happy with Duffy? I don't know--but when the league president resigns two weeks before the draft, it's likely that there has been behind-the-scene tension, and it's probably been building for quite some time. Duffy did not have an easy job.
     
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  4. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
    It would be a shame if Sacramento doesn't end up joining when they were 99% in a few months ago. Wonder what this does to the potential franchises in Cincinnati, Atlanta, Austin & Los Angeles?
     
  5. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Well, as I mentioned in the general news thread, scuttlebutt was that she probably wasn't going to get the commissioner job that is apparently still going to happen eventually, so in that sense I'm not surprised she wanted to shift positions.

    And I wouldn't say Sac isn't joining the league. They just aren't joining for 2020. The read is that Sac was essentially ready to join the league - contingent on the league getting out from under USSF, which everyone was pretty confident on as well. It sounds like everyone was caught off guard when USSF suddenly said "no". There certainly are problems with NWSL - I agree it was likely a very frustrating role for Duffy to be president - but I think the whole Sac fiasco is on multiple parties (including, apparently, one final detail on their end too).

    Heck, I think she was only the figurehead leader ever since the previous commish left. USSF has been administrating stuff, so what use is a managing director or a president? If this is a step down as it looks like, I'm betting it's entirely due to frustration with USSF.
    I think that, as long as each team puts up a healthy front this year, and especially if there's an OG bump as well, we won't lose many (if any) interested parties. Whatever administration problems there are, if each franchise is doing well, people will still want franchises.
     
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  6. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    With Duffy leaving, and still no commissioner in sight, and no idea who is responsible for media (streaming, broadcast, advertising) in 2020, not to mention who is paying what bills (with the whole bonus year of USSF management), I wouldn't hold my breath on any expansion announcements.

    Especially with the lack of a commissioner or president (Duffy) to part of the announcement photo op.
     
  7. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Duffy will still be in the acting president role until mid-February, so it's *possible* that the close-to-done Sac deal get announced before then, but yeah I think a leadership vacuum will put a pause on things.
     
  8. DynamoManiac

    DynamoManiac Member+

    Jan 27, 2014
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    If you ever have the chance to meet someone that worked for Duffy in NWSL, buy them a beer and get them to tell you some inside stories. The relationship with USSF is of course a difficult issue, but won't take you long to figure out that Duffy was also a very big part of the problem. The owners were extremely frustrated with her and very nearly fired her last year, but putting in another USSF blessed choice would have made no sense so they stuck it out with the expectation they'd change the operating agreement with USSF this year and then replace Duffy. Saying she was a candidate for commissioner was nice lip service, but it was never true and clearly she was smart enough to know that.
     
  9. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Lauletta (and others) on a conference call with Baird and NWSL owners - reporting that everyone in the league apparently is still bullish on hitting 14 teams "in the near future".
     
  10. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005

    I'd say 12 is more realistic. I mean 12 by 2022. The NWSL to LA fans are very much present, just a matter of Mia Hamm & Co. speeding things up. Sacramento has been very silent. Same for Atlanta. Cincinnati has had some steam recently with their new training facility getting approved. I'd say two out of these four actually get a team by 2022.
     
  11. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    If the USSF/NWSL management divorce happens and all players end up being under contract to the league and the teams, instead of their being "Federation" players - I could see Vancouver also coming in at some point.
     
  12. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Well we're currently only guaranteed 10 in 2021, so you're right it you're limiting the window to 2022. However, the quote I provided didn't put that 2022 limit - just "in the near future". My read on the situation was that they originally planned for 10 in '20, 12 in '21, and 14 in '22, but the commissioner search bumped that entire schedule back a year.

    I'm not sure you've been paying attention to Sac in that case... They've signed three former NWSL players in the past month. It might not mean much at all, but they've tagged NWSL in all three announcements.

    As much as I hate the idea of VWFC getting a women's team - I'd much prefer *any* other Canadian organization getting involved in NWSL - you're probably right since they're the only ones who've voiced any real interest to date.
     
  13. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Probably need to rename the thread by bumping everything a year back at this point, but things are suddenly moving quickly and very positively...

    2021 - Louisville
    2022 - Los Angeles
    2022 - Sacramento?
    2023 - another west coast?
    2023 - ??
     
  14. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
    I think if Sacramento is back online, they'll get in for 2022 with Los Angeles to get the league to twelve teams. This other west coast team(San Jose?) and Cincinnati can join for 2023 to get to 14 teams.

    EAST: SkyBlue, Washington, Orlando, North Carolina, Chicago, Louisville, Cincinnati
    WEST: OL Reign, Portland, Sacramento, Angel City FC, Utah, Houston, San Jose?
     
  15. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I'll ask an interesting question from my point of view outside USA (so I'll admit I am not completely aware of the local landscape).

    With 14 clubs instead of the current 9, and assuming that NWSL, unlike European leagues, still wants to support (at least on paper) parity within the league, how much more spread the talent will be in the league and how much diluted will it be in every single team?

    Of course, I am also assuming that NWSL won't necessarily become more attractive to international talent than it currently is (and, although NWSL secured some international stars through the years, we do know that it often struggles to compete with what the big European clubs are offering).

    So, assuming that NWSL will have to mostly rely on domestic talent, will the average NWSL team become a little weaker compared to their European counterparts (of course I have future international club competitions as a target in my mind)? Will the league benefit of the expansions as a whole, but at the cost of a lower quality of the single teams? Or the fact that the pre-existent clubs will have the chance to "protect" some of their best players will create "de facto" a league with much less parity than in the past?

    Or, instead, you all think, guys, that, given the humongous base of licensed women's player in the US compared to other countries, there will be enough talent to fill up very well all of the clubs without any decrease in quality and, on the contrary, a lot of young promising players will have the chance to get an amount of playing-time that they could have never dreamt of so far? Or, even, some US players who are currently playing in minor leagues scattered around the world could actually come home and pursue a professional career in NWSL?

    Food for thought, I'd like to hear about your answers, guys.
     
  16. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    I think the idea of "talent dilution" is a disproven idea. I mean, sure, if you increase the size of the league by 25% or more in just one year, yeah you might get a bit of a talent shock for the first season with all the expansion teams. However, we've watched MLS grow at ~1 team per year for over a decade now, and instead of the talent getting diluted, it's gotten better. I think NWSL would be even more so.

    First off, we already know that NWSL is *brutal* for rookies, no matter how good they are. There are plenty of quality players - or players that could be quality with just one or two years of experience under their belts - that don't get the chance because of roster limitations. An expanded NWSL removes some of those limitations.

    Second, NWSL will attract more international talent. The simple fact that the league minimum and league average are so high compared to the comparable values in most other leagues means that even if NWSL misses out on the Kerrs and Maros or the world, there's a gigantic amount of players not far below who would still find the league very attractive. (And I think Utah might've gotten their two Lyon players were it not for COVID.) Besides, every international who does spend a season or two in NWSL seems to relay positive information back, so if nothing else, word-of-mouth will keep a steady trickle of even that top talent opting to come over, at least for a little bit each.

    Another thing to consider is that, while Europe may be "tapped out" in terms of finding its own talent, the world of WoSo is huge. MLS has made a name for itself by being able to draw in and amplify western hemisphere and African talent in a way that Brazil, Argentina, and Mexico were previously known for. NWSL is poised to be able to do the same thing, expect be ahead of those three nations since their domestic WoSo leagues aren't incredibly high-profile.

    Finally, more teams simply means more money thrown around. COVID may have hampered the launch of the new "allocation money" system, but I for one am expecting more flexing by NWSL teams for next season. Also, even without allocation money, we can probably expect the salary cap and salary minimums to keep growing as the league adds more teams.

    So, all in all, I think expansion will only help see the quality grow, both by allowing the domestic pipeline to flourish more than it currently is AND by becoming more attractive to international talent.
     
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  17. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
    I think the bigger this league grows and the more coverage it starts to get, it'll attract more international talent. Maybe by 2023 they can get a second TV partner? And if the wave keeps getting bigger, maybe they grow to 16 teams for 2024 with Atlanta & Miami or Austin?
     
  18. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Plus, if the league gets good immigration help, it will be much easier to get Green Cards. Hiring some of the top women in the world makes it much easier to get them Green Cards, even if you aren't paying them a ton of money.
     
  19. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    A second TV partner, especially a Spanish-language partner, could definitely be nice.

    ATL or MIA will get in before CIN does, IMO. Good point about bringing up Austin, though, since they've been on the radar for some time now - maybe more so thatn ATL and MIA.

    Also, nearly doubling in just 4 years is probably pushing things too much, similar to the thought of going from 9 to 12 in just one year, though for a different reason - expanding too quickly brings the risk of financial recklessness. No on wants to replicate what happened to the old NASL.

    Considering that NWSL has talked about a goal of 14 for years and years now, I'm betting that we get at least a one-year pause, maybe two or three years, before we make the jump from 14 to 16.
     
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  20. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
    hearing a rumor that a Dallas or Austin expansion team is also in the works. Kind of comes out of nowhere(sort of). The Austin franchise would be co-owned by the Dallas Wings of the WNBA and the Austin MLS team. The WNBA team would also relocate to Austin and play at the HEB Center in Cedar Park.
     
  21. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Rumors and speculation belong in the "possibilities" thread!
     
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  22. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I told you there was going to be confusion about these threads. ;)
     
  23. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
    I

    Cancel the rumor, the WNBA's Dallas Wings bought a franchise in the National Lacrosse League.
     
  24. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    But then you would be going off topic beyond the thread title...;)
     
  25. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
    I'm 100% convinced that the NWSL will be at 14 teams by 2023.
     

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