"Everyone Hates Us"

Discussion in 'Referee' started by Wreave, Jan 29, 2008.

  1. Wreave

    Wreave Member

    May 4, 2005
    Colorado Springs, CO
  2. Tarheel Ref

    Tarheel Ref New Member

    May 3, 2007
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Hey, buddy...I agree with much of what you write, but not this. Just this weekend I heard positive feedback about some of my work and more about that of others working the same tournament as I did. I think that the vocal minority that does project "hatred" or even just disdain drowns out the vast majority of players, coaches and spectators who really do appreciate the difficulty of the work done by referees of all sports.
     
  3. Citiref

    Citiref New Member

    Oct 16, 2004
    Not everybody ... I remember hearing a comment a few years back as an AR at a tournament where some teenage girl said she 'loves a man in uniform'. I waited until I was past her to start chuckling.
     
  4. Ref Flunkie

    Ref Flunkie Member

    Oct 3, 2003
    New Hudson, MI
    Was she talking about you or the teenage boy players? :) My wife just laughs when she sees me in my uniform.
     
  5. Untroubled by Reason

    Dec 5, 2007
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe it would be more accurate to say, "Someone's going to hate us," no matter what you call/don't call. Every decision is going to please some and displease others, and some folks don't much tolerate being displeased!:rolleyes:
     
  6. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    I dont know the answer to this question...but does the image we project on the field (appearance, hustle, being vocal, approachable,etc) have anything to do with smoothness of our game? Or do the fans, players, coaches etc not care and are on us anyway?

    I LIKE to think image projected goes a long way to an easier game, but I truly have been on the bad side of some coaches, players, fans for what appeas to be no apparent reason.

    Authority is a tough position to hold. Ask a cop, teacher, parent.

    R
     
  7. hefftheref

    hefftheref Member

    May 24, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i agree, there are going to be those who hate you. however, definitely not everybody.
    i really do get many compliments on not only my refereeing, but also on the general referees in my area. of course, there are still many who dislike everything we do, but i find that the good normally outweighs the bad.
     
  8. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

    Apr 7, 2004
    Southern NH
    Ya mean the stylish bright yellow shirt, the black socks pulled up to the knees and the tan line just below the knees isn't the highlight of sexiness and fashion? :eek: :eek:

    My wife calls us the "geek squad"
     
  9. andymoss

    andymoss BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 4, 2007
    Nashville, TN
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    My girlfriend loves my referee tan! Not!

    And it's always great, although doesn't happen too often, when a parent expresses his or her opinion that, as you walk off the field, job well done, "you are the worst referee we have seen all year" and a few seconds later, a parent from the same team comes over, shakes your hand and tells you what a good job he or she thought you'd done.

    Love it when that happens.

    Even better when a parent comes to the ref shack/tent later in the day and offers thanks, especially when your assigner is within earshot.

    Hatred? Not sure I'd go that far, but I normally just give a big smile whenever I'm in the vicinity of a particulary vocal group of parents. Drives 'em nuts!
     
  10. refontherun

    refontherun Member+

    Jul 14, 2005
    Georgia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This situation happens quite often, especially in the younger age groups. Most of the U-little games during the regular season are covered by the upcoming young refs with little experience. Of course, we know this is necessary for referee development, but try telling that to coaches and parents.

    It is nice to see parents/coaches smile when a more mature ref shows up at their kid's game. Of course, some coaches aren't so happy because they know they won't be able to use intimidation or lack of experience of the referee to their advantage. The kids have alot more fun because the parents and coaches are under control and they can just "play". I always try to interact positively with parents and coaches and players before, during and after the games to let them know that we are approachable (human) regardless of the outcome. Many of the younger refs are very stoic during games and run away as soon as it's over. We are working on a better, more organized mentoring program. Up to now, it has been up to the more experienced refs to do it on their own.
     
  11. andymoss

    andymoss BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 4, 2007
    Nashville, TN
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    And we should continue to do this at every opportunity, outside of a formal mentoring program. You never know when a bit of encouragement or advice will trip the switch and turn a shy 14 year old into a National Candidate in 10 years time.

    I always find something positive and something constructive for my younger ARs.
     
  12. Wreave

    Wreave Member

    May 4, 2005
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Well, apparently quoting the title of the article has caused people to miss the article altogether and just respond to the "everyone hates us".

    SKIP THE TITLE IF IT BOTHERS YOU. Read the article.

    I personally don't think everyone hates us. However, some of the issues raised in the article were very interesting, especially in the area of mentoring/training/assessment.
     
  13. Tarheel Ref

    Tarheel Ref New Member

    May 3, 2007
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Thanks for re-focusing us on the real issue. The meat of the issue is on target and, as you wrote in your first post, the word soccer could easily replace hockey in that article.

    I did find the article very interesting and easily understood the main issue...that being the importance of on-going training for current referees (of any sport) and the weeding out of those with little or no motivation to provide good officiating services to the players. I'm sure these issues could apply to all sports, not just soccer and hockey.

    The most interesting points made were those by former referees about the need for regular assessments of up and coming referees...once a month or four times a year being optimal. I can remember YEARS going by as a soccer referee without any constructive feedback except that for which I asked.

    That being said, more of us could be pro-active in seeking out constructive criticism and training as well....
     
  14. Untroubled by Reason

    Dec 5, 2007
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Your point is well taken on the title of the article, but I think a lot of the issues brought up are really dealt with well in soccer, at least from what I've seen. For example, in a county near where I live, young refs are given games with more senior refs shadowing them during the match, offering real-time feedback as they work. There is a network of assessors to keep watch over who is struggling and who should advance. There are web sites (like this one, Jim Allen's ask the referree, etc.) to discuss technical issues. And young referrees tend to ask for and get the bulk of lower level games at tournaments (albeit partly because they need the experience, it's mostly because they have the legs for it). In my county, most of our house-league soccer is played at a single complex, where the younger refs know they have adult standing at or near their fields if they need help.
    Of course, there's always room for improvement. Assessments aren't done nearly enough, but how would assessors know who to watch without being asked, for example.
     
  15. intechpc

    intechpc Member

    Sep 22, 2005
    West Bend, WI
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Absolutely, 100% without a doubt yes it does! This is one of the first things I tell the young referees in our rec league. No matter what you call, do it confidently and you'll save yourself a huge headache. You can make 10 wrong calls and not hear a word from anyone if you do it confidently, conversely you can make a single good call but doing it tentatively can cause dissent from the sidelines and even players.

    Being in position, making crisp confident calls and showing a human side all lend themselves to better reactions from spectators, coaches and players. I think if you ask any referee instructor they'll all agree that your on-field appearance is a significant factor in how smoothly a game will go.

    That said there's no hard fast rule here. Sometimes there's just nothing you can do to keep that dad from going ballistic when Johnny has his goal disallowed because he was offside.
     
  16. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    I read the article once and then re-read it again after reading some of the posts.

    What goes without saying is the numbers game. Too many games not enough officials, no matter what the sport. It becomes a warm body issue more than anything, sometimes.

    Who among us has not been called last minute to cover a game someplace? And I know from experience in working with good assignors that their job is ridiculous for the time and effort they put into it. So, we sometimes are forced to live with the bad ones, and we face the consequences of their actions the next time we enter the FOP.

    I know that more training would be fantastic and time consuming and costly. How many of us would submit beyond the 18 hours of the gr. 8 course or the half day recerts?

    I go to games and watch games, and talk on these boards. Is it enough?

    I think being in shape, being firm and strong with the whistle, and knowing the LOTG inside and out goes a long way to making the best impression with the fans, coaches, players and parents. But human nature sometimes trumps all of us, and maybe, the education and training needs to be done at the coaching and playing level too.
     
  17. njref

    njref Member

    Mar 29, 2003
    New Jersey
    Yes soccer referees get heckled and hated sometimes. The good news is that we are not basketball or hockey officials, they take a lot more @#$% than we do, and the fans and coaches are right in their face.

    I was a high school hockey scorekeeper, and if I heard on a soccer field what I used to hear in the booth, I would be averaging a conduct RC and 3 fan ejections every game. And this is high school, I am sure that minor league hockey is much worse.

    Be thankful that soccer coaches and spectators in the US (leaving out certain ethnic leagues) are relatively well behaved. Non-U.S., no comment.....
     
  18. Untroubled by Reason

    Dec 5, 2007
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Baseball umpires, as well. "Kill the ump!" is part of the cultural heritage of baseball, as are dissent and theatrics.
     
  19. campton

    campton New Member

    May 1, 2007
    Chi-city
    Thats becuase the ump is ALWAYS wrong :).
     
  20. Doug the Ref

    Doug the Ref Member

    Dec 6, 2005
    St. Louis
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think that some of us as officials like, or at least appreciate the situation that we are in as the enemy. "Kill the ump" attitudes for the VAST majority of the cases do not include KILL, but rather, allows the fans to show displeasure and emotion at something other than the players themselves. It's like the Super Bowl. I really don't care who wins, or even who is playing, but when I spend $.50 on a square, I all of a sudden have a vested interest in the game. The fans already have a vested interest in the game, but it recognize that it is quite unsporting to direct that emotion to the players of either team. That leaves us. The problem is obviously, when someone takes that attitude to the extreme. :(
     
  21. Wahoos1

    Wahoos1 Member

    Oct 31, 2004
    We are also stuck in a self perpetuating system that can set the fans/coaches against us. At the younger levels of games, those U10/12 and the ilk, our local assignor has no choice but to assign new refs,often kids with little to no experience and no supervision/mentoring just to get all the games covered. The experienced and better refs get the tougher games.

    And so the young refs botch the game in many ways. Not because they are bad people, just inexperienced refs. What do you expect from a 14 year old with 3 games under his belt trying to handle adult coaches and bitching parents? They tighten up, freeze, forget things or misapply rules.

    And the parents and coaches watch such, and our credibility is toast as they go forward with their kids.
     
  22. whyref

    whyref Member

    May 26, 2006
    Apparently I view this differently from most of you. "Everyone hates us", is such an all encompassing thing. Should we in turn view all players, staff and parents as bad people? I do not believe so, but am concerned that we may foster a greater concern for this type of thinking among newbies than really exists or needs to be.

    I actually see the complaining spectators in two different perspectives. First, there are those who feel they will influence what I do and how I do it, by complaining about everything that happens, including poor tactical play by their team. Next, there are those who feel the need to point out what they percieve to be a call/non-call relative to the ball and play. I always try to remember that neither group takes into consideration that their view is at a different angle than mine and that I may only call what I see, not what I think happened.

    Neither group really has any idea of what the game is about or they would be enjoying what does happen. And if they did we would be hearing things such as great ball; nice touch; well done piece of skill. It is impossible in my mind - and I played over seas before becoming a coach and eventually a referee here at home - for someone to focus on how badly they percieve things to be and still have any real idea of what is happening during play.

    I always have fun and thoroughly enjoy myself when I referee. When I act as an AR and during a stoppage in play I will answer a question I heard or explain what the call was. And regardless of what the tone of the previously voiced concern, the fact that they now have the correct data to better understand play is always appreciated.

    "Everyone hates us"; I think we can do a lot to dissuade that, starting with not focusing on such a statement!
     

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