Euros 2020 (in 21) thread

Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by Ashur, May 17, 2021.

  1. yikchi

    yikchi Member

    Aug 11, 2004
    Garden State
    Agree. I like the 3-4-3 / 5-2-3 but I don't get starting Mount who really hasn't even played well vs Denmark. I will start with Saka and have Kane drop deep and Sterling /Saka running in. I would think England's game plan from the start would be sit deep and counter yet i don't see one decent counter attack in 118 minutes.

    Southgate has no answer after Mancini made his first move. Henderson for Rice did not make any impact.

    PKs are crapshoot but I don't get the kicker selection...I get Rashford (even he missed) he has taken & made some big PKs before. Sancho I am not so sure. I would leave Henderson in to take it just for his experience. Even Maguire made his it was still a curious decision. Sterling isn't one of the first 5 and before Saka ?
     
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  2. MizzouMUFC

    MizzouMUFC Member+

    Apr 10, 2010
    Places
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I didn't understand Saka being in the 11 at all this tournament. The only thing that makes sense is that Southgate is a pussy and having 2 defensive CMs wasn't enough for him, he needed a winger that would put in a shift defensively as well.

    Keeping Sancho and Grealish on the bench for most of the tournament is a sackable offense in itself.
     
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  3. Ashur

    Ashur BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Gliding over all
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Safe to say that a few are not taking today's loss very well...

    Multiple reports of a number of stabbings that apparently have been taking place post match. Where's the self control among some? :rolleyes:
     
  4. Ruud v.Nistelrooy 10

    Staff Member

    Manchester United
    Jamaica
    Jun 4, 2006
    The Bridge to Iacon
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Jamaica
    and this is the guy johno thinks will make the right decision and pick Sancho for NT starting duty because he's apparently moving back to England to make it easier to watch him.

    OK
     
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  5. Ashur

    Ashur BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Gliding over all
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    Pretty much spot on from the panel. Mancini's coaching gave Italy the edge: England started well and it looked like Southgate's decision were the correct ones. Mancini made the necessary (and right) adjustments, while everything Southgate did after the half was wrong and badly timed. He reverted to type and it played a big part in the end result...
     
  6. SyedZada

    SyedZada Member+

    May 14, 2008
    Santa Clara
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Best coach at the tournament with a decent team won, shocker.
     
  7. SyedZada

    SyedZada Member+

    May 14, 2008
    Santa Clara
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Keane is not happy senior English players let Saka have the penalty.
     
  8. Ashur

    Ashur BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Gliding over all
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Been pretty apparent for a little while now, but it's really been hard not to see the similarities between Southgate and Ole. Good guys by and large and excellent man managers (main spike for both) who care deeply about their players and the team as a whole (and thus seem to be very popular with them).
    Both have brought their teams back from messy situations and have taken big steps towards respectability. But just as is the case with Ole, would be very surprised to see Southgate take this team all the way in the coming years.
    In-game management is an issue for both (in slightly varying degrees, they are reluctant to make changes early and lack a viable Plan B) and they are easily outwitted by anyone with just a modicum of tactical awareness (and have the talent to boot).
    Knowing the FA and given this run the team just went on, there is no doubt that Southgate will retain his job. And to be fair, not sure that finding a replacement is that straightforward either. But that's the job for people at the FA to figure out.
    And if they were really serious about going for success as soon as next year in Qatar and beyond, they'd start looking for that person who could take this group to the next level.
    With the talent on hand, along with that to come waiting in the wings, this is a team that could make its mark in a big way in the next 2-3 intl tournaments. As it stands, England fans will probably have to hope that Southgate can learn from this campaign and somehow use that knowledge to improve in some key areas.
     
  9. LA. MAN UNITED

    LA. MAN UNITED Member+

    May 22, 2006
    New Orleans
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If some jagoff billionaire can fly to space on a day trip, how on God's green earth can't they find these fcking pieces of shit who post this vile garbage? IT peeps, help me out.
     
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  10. JC7rox

    JC7rox Member+

    Manchester United FC, LAFC
    Jun 11, 2004
    West Coast, Cali!
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Also saw a video of security allowing England supporters to just sit and wait for Italian fans to exit to get knocked and beaten down. Pretty vile stuff.

    On a lighter note...

    Let's give our guys the support we gave Becks back in 98. Waiting for the Sancho announcement. Best thing they can do is go on and have some club success.
     
  11. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    New Zealand
    Maguire needs to work on his disty IMO

    He tends to carry the ball out of defence, which is useful in breaking the press, but slows progression a lot.
     
  12. Ashur

    Ashur BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Gliding over all
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  13. jeff070

    jeff070 Member+

    Dec 31, 2004
    PA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Lebanon
    Even if it is terrible coaching, here is my gripe. You have your group of PK takers lined up from training. Match day comes along, they still are your PK takers, if they were not up to it, they should have said something. I like that there was a game plan for the PK's without winging it. Had England won, everyone would have praised Southgate. I am not against the idea of those types of subs as we saw LVG with Krul and Cillessen.

    On another note, England did not play well after the goal and that is down to Southgate. I am segregating the PK decision with how he managed the game and the style of play. PK's, I am okay with, the way he managed the game was worse.
     
  14. jeff070

    jeff070 Member+

    Dec 31, 2004
    PA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Lebanon
  15. Red Jeph

    Red Jeph Member+

    Aug 26, 2006
    Chicago
    Those three aren't gonna say they don't want to take one. It's the manager's job to protect his players put them in the best position to succeed, and he utterly failed.
     
  16. Ashur

    Ashur BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Gliding over all
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  17. MizzouMUFC

    MizzouMUFC Member+

    Apr 10, 2010
    Places
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Here's the issue with that...you cant just have a set of penalty takers without taking into account the other factors. Its fine to have a list of best to worst penalty takers and using that as a baseline, but you need to adjust that based on things like:

    1. Current form. Form plays a huge part in confidence and penalties are about 70% confidence. So putting on two players that are not in form, because they have not played all tournament is a mistake. If Southgate put those guys in to start extra time so they had 30 minutes to get warm and touch the ball would have been fine by me. Putting them on to take cold penalties screams of a coach that has never played the game. Also, giving Saka a penalty when he was arguably one of the worst players on the field in the final is again, bad coaching.

    2. Situation/experience. Letting a 19 year old take one of the first penalties in a community shield shoot out or preseason tournament game is a good way to get him some experience. Having a 19 year old take the deciding penalty in the Euro final when he hasnt taken a senior penalty in his life is pure stupidity. In this situation, even if Grealish and Sterling are worse at penalties, you put them ahead of Saka based on experience alone. Not only for the penalty itself, but because if they do miss they have the maturity to cope with the fallout. You have to be smart enough to protect young players. Southgate set Saka up to be the fall guy and have to deal with the social media bullshit and possibly cripple his confidence for who knows how long.

    Southgate fell into the same trap as Ole did in the EL final and something inexperienced/bad coaches do. They didnt take into account the situation and they werent flexible enough. It was clear they had a strict penalty taker list and rather than worry about those players form/gametime/experience he just made sure they were all on the field when 120 minutes hit. Bad coaching, plain and simple.
     
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  18. jeff070

    jeff070 Member+

    Dec 31, 2004
    PA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Lebanon
    This is good conversation.Those two explanations I have an issue with:

    1) Game form and penalty form imo are two segregated situations. I do not believe one impacts the other and vice versa. Ronaldo scored against Chelsea and missed in the shootout (just off the top of my dome). You are either a good penalty taker or you are not. You do not need rhythm/momentum or whatever you call it. You could have the worst game ever and still score the winning PK.

    2) I do not believe age has anything to do with it. On the other hand I actually think that the being younger you are fearless, and may not think about what could happen if you miss. There is no legacy that you need to protect. People remember Roberto Baggio for his miss in 1994, everything else before that got somewhat tainted. Similar with Messi and the Copa.

    Penalties are luck that are tried to be managed via practice and proper takers. Maguire hit the best PK this summer hands down, but when he stepped up all I could think of was: "WTF a CB taking a PK?" and my mind went back to Davinson Sanchez and Yerry Mina missing against Emi Martinez. Guess what? he nailed it even though he has not taken one with United.

    I am in agreement that you have a plan and stick to it unless a player says I am not feeling it. Since we live in an egotistical world Rashford Saka and Sancho were not going to say "Sorry coach, I am scared I am not up to it" Either way they will learn from this experience. When next year we are in the UCL final, they will make sure to score, there is a reason to score and not just to win it.
     
  19. Ashur

    Ashur BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Gliding over all
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]
    Some heat map for an almost 37yr old. I honestly loved (and was super impressed) watching both him and Bonucci not just yesterday, but throughout the tournament.
    Those 2 are literally Doctors/PhDs when it comes to CB play (and all aspects of defending in general). Been thinking so many times watching them, how privileged someone like de Ligt is, to being able to be around players like that on a daily basis at Juve: that is legitimately being in CB finishing school with those 2 guys.
     
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  20. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    New Zealand
    I don't understand this either.

    Surely Kane or Rashford should have taken the last one
     
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  21. MizzouMUFC

    MizzouMUFC Member+

    Apr 10, 2010
    Places
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    1. They arent though, at least not entirely. The things you listed are anecdotal. Do you think you hit a ball better when you have played for a while, have a feel for the ball, with warmed up muscles? Or do you think you hit a ball better when you havent touched it and have been sitting on a bench for two hours? People who have played the game at a high level know the difference (this isnt me taking a shot at you or anything like that). It matters.

    2. I never said age has anything to do with it. I said experience has a lot to do with it. If Saka had taken penalties for the last two years for Arsenal and England and had been through penalty shootouts in major tournaments before, I wouldnt care as much about his age. But he hasnt taken one at the senior level in any capacity. So to give him his FIRST EVER penalty at a senior level as the deciding penalty in the Euro final is insanity. You talk about legacy. Do you really think Saka was thinking about how this penalty would effect his future legacy? No, he was probably thinking "dont ******** this up and let down your team and country". Thats too much pressure for a young man to deal with.

    Penalties arent luck. They are one of the easiest things to do in football from just a technique standpoint. Its the mental/pressure of taking a penalty that makes them difficult. Which is why experience matters.
     
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  22. Father Ted

    Father Ted BigSoccer Supporter

    Manchester United, Galway United, New York Red Bulls
    Nov 2, 2001
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Agreed 100%. Just because you’re banging them in during practice doesn’t make it automatic when it comes either after 120 minutes of playing/118 minutes of waiting in a massive final with the crowd cheering/jeering you and billions more in TV. You can practice for it all you want but cannot plan for the circumstances. In any case it is on Southgate that it ended in a shootout considering the players he had at his disposal. A single shot on goal in 120 minutes tells us the real story.
     
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  23. jeff070

    jeff070 Member+

    Dec 31, 2004
    PA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Lebanon
    1) if that is the case then a striker turned coach in Ole should know better or Boro CB should know better. So that being said, I disagree. Anderson got on like @Holy__Joe explained and scored specifically for the PKs and that is Sir Alex his coach.
    2) How many penalties Maguire took before last night? None I think. Let's talk experience then, Baggio Beckham at the Euros 2004 and countless examples all missed when having plenty of experience.

    There is no right answer for this which is why I am okay with it IF that was the plan. If that was not the plan and Southgate winged it then yes total screw up.
     
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  24. jeff070

    jeff070 Member+

    Dec 31, 2004
    PA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Lebanon
    I agree with the last sentence. That should be the bigger talking point.
     
  25. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
    This is what happens when you have a McFred or a Kalvin Rice midfield. Their only impact on the game was defensive.

    Compared to 2 of Italy's deeper mids. Can be ball winners and ball players at the same time. The above point is a general comment. Not aimed an an individual.
     
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