european team of 1980’s

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by tony-soprano37, Oct 25, 2019.

  1. tony-soprano37

    Dec 5, 2008
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    its gonna be a 4-4-2 formation with wingbacks

    GK : dassaev
    RB : kaltz
    LB : cabrini
    CB : Scirea
    CB : Gentile
    LM : Robson
    RM : Gullit
    CM : Platini
    DM : matthaus
    SS: Dalglish
    Striker : van basten

    Is this indeed the best/most complete european line up of the 80’s ?
    And can south america match this team ? They also had great players that decade (passarella, junior, falcao, Zico, francescoli, Maradona)
     
  2. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    I think that some RB's are more 80's than Kaltz. Like Amoros or Gerets.
    (Kaltz is late 70s/early 80s).
    Same with Gentile. Gentile out, Förster in for me.
    I won't put Robson at LM but just play a 4-2-2-2. I'd have Tigna instead of him, I guess. Also probably somebody else than Dalglish and probably also somebody else than Van Basten. Not sure who I'd choose for the moment but Rummenigge comes to mind... also Eljkaer or Rush.
    Unsure about Matthaüs too for the moment but I don't know who else as I'm just posting my first reactions quickly.
     
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  3. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    At LB, Demyanenko played his whole career during the 80s. Cabrini has had a couple of average seasons, in that first half of the decade, in Italy.
    Brehme was on the map as well but his famous goals intervene in '90.
     
  4. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #4 PuckVanHeel, Oct 25, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2019

    For this decade there is an obvious dearth of players who were class in both halves of the decade. The players who were playing at a high level in 1982 and 1988, or 1981 and 1987 are few and far between. Me and @PDG1978 tried once this exercise and you get a relatively underwhelming set of names for this.

    For example PDG1978 ended up with (Europeans only):

    Dasaev; Amoros, Baresi, Vierchowod, Brehme; Tigana, Lerby; Hoddle, Ceulemans; Lineker, Elkjaer

    While the ones getting inclusions for his yearly best lists were, from that generation: Baresi, Lineker, Ceulemans, Elkjaer, Tigana, Hoddle, Schuster, Barnes, Nicholas, Rush, Belanov, Littbarski and Strachan.


    Putting that aside, Van Basten for the 1980s is still a much better choice as Ronaldo for this millennium. Silver Boot and Golden Boot winner in both halves of the decade (silver boot at the age of 19 in 1984 was the youngest ever at that point). Eight major topscorer honors of different types and competitions (not counting the 1989-90 Serie A), also a few times ending 2nd in the topscorer list (1986-87 behind team-mate Bosman; 1987-88 Coppa Italia; 1988-89 Serie A), and evidently about as influential as any multifold BdO winner.

    Still, few of the biggest names were really good well into both halves of the decade. From your names Dasaev and Robson were class well into both halves (if fit and healthy), maybe also Gullit (wm442433 made a comment like that) and Matthaus but not many more of your options.
     
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  5. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    yes that's the difficulty.
     
  6. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I forgot about that attempt lol! (but recall it now).

    I guess we were concentrating indeed on players associated with the whole period 1980-1989. That is what wm is trying to do too I see, but perhaps Tony was considering peak to trump length of relevance even. Either way (but especially the peak option) I do feel Van Basten has a good case, but I guess we were considering him of a later generation (despite that his career didn't go on much longer in reality).

    I had had the same thought as wm about Tigana potentially in a magic square rather than Robson on the left of midfield (though in a diamond with Platini more advanced I guess that is ok too). And Amoros had crossed my mind too. Forster indeed (over a Vierchowod maybe for example) if looking at the 80s as a whole period.

    But if Van Basten got in on peak rather than cumulative contributions (which he possibly can IMO anyway, as he was doing very well at Ajax in the mid 80s and his best level and contributions, including Euro 88 surpass the other striker options I guess we'd all be agreeing), then maybe Baresi should too, or he could be an option (as much as I like the Scirea pick!).
     
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  7. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    We probably had Scirea down as 1975-1985 I think Puck btw in that exercise didn't we!
     
  8. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Yes that is true. Morten Olsen is then a better option (for example kicker rated him as the 2nd best defensive midfielder as late as summer 1989, maybe as retirement gesture, but also a good relative placement in the rankings the year before)

    For Forest goalkeeper Shilton you was thinking 1975 - 1985 as in best form and achievements.

    Options I mentioned back then:

    GK: Dasaev, Pfaff
    SB: Gerets, Amoros
    CB: Morten Olsen
    DM: Lerby
    CM: Schuster, Robson
    AM: Mikhailichenko
    WF: Ceulemans, Belanov, Zacharov, Strachan
    CF: Lineker, Rush, Elkjaer


    It's not outrageous per se. Of the players who made their debut in the 1980s Shearer leads with 283 league goals, followed by Romario with 255 goals at the highest divisions of national leagues (I follow peterhrt his data here). Van Basten is at 218 league goals. With then the international levels factored in, and creating match winning goals in five big finals, for three different teams, you might argue there is still a decent enough case on a cumulative base. But clearly he and others fit better for 1985 - 1995 since you still miss some of his best achievements by cutting off in december 1989 (you gain one more ballon d'or and world player of the year, amid other things).
     
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  9. tony-soprano37

    Dec 5, 2008
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Thnx for the replies. Maybe i was not exactly clear indeed i did not mean for the whole of the 1980’s just there peakperformance in the 80’s.
    Amoros as Some of you mentioned indeed crossed my mind.
     
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  10. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    I'd put the midfileders on the same line in a diagram.

    Schuster-Mikha-Robson-Lerby
     
  11. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    If for peak performance then, it's still not that easy but perhaps we have our CF.
     
  12. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    #12 poetgooner, Oct 26, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2019
    May I suggest a Gooner, Kenny Sansom for LB? 7 EPL PFA of the year throughout that decade ;)

    There's also Jose Camacho as well, I think.

    Bergomi is surely another option as he played well in both halves.
     
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  13. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    As an aside, I saw this thing yesterday, a BBC piece from 1990 on the three tulips. Nice stuff!

    Maybe we can make a list per country. For Netherlands I'm afraid it is limited to the likes of Van Breukelen and Muhren... Many of the more prominent Belgian players qualify for this. Pfaff, Gerets, Ceulemans, Van der Elst etcetera all reasonably qualify (Vercauteren a bit less so - I think he had most of his best level and contributions to significant success between 1975 and 1985; Scifo is more of the Laudrup generation as well).


    Roberto Mancini possibly, though Bergomi also showed it at international levels early on.
     
  14. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Mancini is more of a 90s player isn't he?
     
  15. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I know it's hard to displace Scirea, but don't you think Alan Hansen has a case here?
     
  16. tony-soprano37

    Dec 5, 2008
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I wanted a formation with wingbacks and in my memory camacho and bergomi where excellent backs but not really all that good on attacking
     
  17. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Nice montage.

    Yeah, I suppose there are various ways to look at 'team of the 80s', and one can be as we were doing on that other thread. Another can be looking at needing to have excelled for quite a lot of the decade but without a player being restricted to one decade and/or without mid decade to mid decade selections (but only 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s etc etc) - then as suggested I think Van Basten can still go in the 80s team. Another way could be trying to pick a team from a specific point or period in time with all the players as they were in that period (mid 80s perhaps in this example).

    The way I think Tony was doing it though, as he's said now, is to pick based on best versions of the players from any point in the 80s.

    I guess then I end up with something like this, though the actual periods indicated can be a bit uncertain: I feel like Euro 88 is the obvious one for Van Basten but it could be some point in 1989 is an option, or back at Ajax where he was developing into a great and prolific striker and hadn't yet had the injury difficulties - start to 85/86 maybe? I guess Dasaev for example too could be more 84/85, but it's easy to point at a tournament performance with historic players and where footage would be relatively scarce (same for Amoros but I guess for a lot of the 80s he'd be a good option anyway):
    Dasaev (82 WC); Amoros (1986), Baresi (last couple of years of 80s), Vierchowod (ditto), Brehme (1989); Matthaus (1989), Tigana (mid 80s); Gullit (87/88), Platini (mid 80s); Dalglish (start to 82/83); Van Basten (Euro 88)
    Subs: Shilton (1980), Scirea (early 80s), Forster (early 80s), Gordillo (mid 80s), Rijkaard (Euro 88 or 1989), Hoddle (1981 or 1983), M.Laudrup (85/86), Rummenigge (around 1981), Elkjaer (mid 80s)

    I did it quite quick and without double checking my ideas though! And I think you would suggest Rijkaard on this basis can indeed join the other 'Tulips' in the team and I don't really disagree but just didn't go back and take out Vierchowod or Tigana for example. In a different system I guess Rummenigge would become a first team possibility too to be fair - I guess he'd also be a winger option in that squad, though Gordillo got a place partly based on being LB/LW (but I didn't want to extend the squad excessively so there isn't a Littbarski or a Conti listed...or John Barnes who perhaps could have fitted at left midfield/left wing in Tony's original team even, though everyone's choices would vary a bit and that definitely seemed pretty much a valid line-up and probably he likes/admires Robson enough to give him a place even slightly out of optimal position (but he did see the full backs acting like wing-backs so had thought about providing wingplay that way).
     
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  18. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    That is right although he was already a very good Serie A player as a teenager. Unlike Bergomi not yet showing this at international level though.

    I will try a list with options myself, to the best of my knowledge and ability
     
  19. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Who do you have in mind for peak during this decade? Ian Rush maybe?
     
  20. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    éhéh no. Marco. Ony for his Euro '88 performance. I thought that was enough in terms of peak performance and playing style/ package of abilities/ skills compared to others (like Rush, for example, who would be in good position behind him but with MVB we have a phenomenon). Also for all the rest he did until then (well, especially in 1987-89). Then, perhaps he truly peaked in those early 90s.
     
  21. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Yes think Rush is a good call, since in his most prolific season he scored 47 goals, and has some goals at advanced stages too (the 1986 and 1989 FA Cup finals; the 1984 and 1985 EC semi finals). Rush covers the entire decade well. Maybe Rummenigge is an option as well for peak though he lacks signature games at the advanced/big stages somewhat (where he played well, or had a great moment) and despite a handful acrobatic goals he maybe lacks that bit of magic, the touch that marks out the great attackers. His DBScalcio ranks when playing in Italy are also not as good generally (two times among the top three in his position vs three times in the top two). Of course he doesn't cover the entire decade either.
     
  22. tony-soprano37

    Dec 5, 2008
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I was Reading the Posts of you Guys and maybe i could have better divide the decade.
    80-84 and 85-89. Because indeed Some players only peaked for 1 or 2 years in the decade.
    If i would do iT like that then for example scirea and gentile would be in the early 80 team but not in the late one
     
  23. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Yeah, I think (off the top of my head without thinking too much) doing in that way both teams (whoever people choose - there'd be variation in selections still) can be very good (relative to other half decade continent specific XIs from other eras in general).

    I'd go something like this (cutting it down to 5 subs/reserves - outfield players but obviously a goalie would be required in theory), even if a few names are borderline for early or late in terms of their peak form I think:

    Early 80s: Shilton; Scirea; Kaltz, Forster, Cabrini; Platini, Tigana, Cruyff; Rummenigge, Dalglish, Littbarski; subs: Bossis, Schuster, Hoddle, Conti, Rossi.

    Late 80s: Dasaev; Amoros, Baresi, Vierchowod, Brehme; Matthaus, Rijkaard; Gullit, M.Laudrup; Elkjaer, Van Basten; subs: Koeman, Lerby, Donadoni, Butragueno, Lineker.
     
  24. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I guess I could make up 7 subs with Italians Zoff & Tardelli, and First Division stars Southall and Barnes respectively.

    Somehow I've used the magic square for the late 80s team now lol, not the one with Platini and Tigana included. Tardelli in for Littbarski, and Lerby in for Elkjaer could switch the formations around though (even though the late 80s 4-3-3 midfield would seem to have more brawn and less guile than the early 80s version if I did that, while the front 3 would function a bit differently too).
     
  25. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    We can propose one for each half of the decade + one for the whole thing.
     

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