I'm not an expert on Europe, but I guess that Germany x Netherlands, England x Germany and Scotland x England are the biggest European derbies, at least the most traditional.
Just because teams have faced each other many times (lately), this does not mean there's a 'rivalry' between the 2. Or else you would have a 'rivalry' with most any team in your league seeing as you play them at least 2 times in a season.
I agreed. The MU-Real Madrid is not a rivalry. They only met last year at CL.... and then it was in 2000 when they last played. Bayern Munich came close to have a rivalry with Real Madrid because they met many times the past few years. As I mentioned earlier, many rivalries existed, but the real bigtime ones were: Celtic-Rangers Barcelona-Real Madrid. They are not only about soccer.... they are more than history, politics and/or religion.
Throw in Lazio -- Roma to that mix as well. Now that both teams routinely challenge for the title, it adds even more insanity to the proeedings.
Yet the Barca-Real rivalry is a model of tameness. There's dozens of rivalries all over Europe each with their own story. Some have more story than others, but that doesn't make one more or less fierce than the other.
You may not know it well but there is a big rivalry between Porto and Lisbon reflected in Fc Porto and Benfica..
I agree, the biggest rivalries are by far Real - Barca and Rangers - Celtic. After that you've got the likes of Roma - Lazio, Man Utd - Leeds, Tottenham - Arsenal etc etc etc.
dont forget the liverpool - everton derby or the aston villa birmingham derby. Man Utd - Arsenal is always a gd rivalry aswell.
Maybe those are the most wrote about and reported in the rags around the continent and the world - but they are far removed from being the "biggest" as far as fans of other teams are concerned. Chelsea v QPR - our traditional (biggest) rivals. Chelsea v Leeds - bad blood for many years. Chelsea v Spurs - not as big as it used to be, but was fierce in the 60's. You are making the classic mistake of equating the size of the crowd to the level of rivalry - if you ever stood on a terrace you would know the difference!
Talking about classic mistakes, or assumptions if you prefer, what on earth leads you to believe that I don't stand on the terrace? Bad blood between two teams may make for a rivalry but we're talking about the biggest rivalries. I'd say worldwide interest is a pretty good measuring stick. You could call Colo Colo - U. de Chile a rivalry that, in terms of history, eclipses any of those you mention, would you call two teams in Chile playing a heated game one of the worlds biggest rivalries?
Manchester United - Manchester Citeh Celtic - Rangers Real Madrid - Barcelona Roma - Lazio A nasty one in N. Ireland: Gletoran (Catholic/nationalist) - Linfield (Protestant/unionist)
You're a newbie, so I'll let this slide. Anyone who equates ManUtd - Leeds with Roma - Lazio needs a bit more knowledge about this football thing.
But you really didn't let it slide did you, you pointed out part of your opinion. Anyway: The War of the Roses and all that tosh make the two quite comparable. Certainly in terms of hatred.
Red Star - Partizan Hajduk Split - Dynamo Zagreb Any Real - Barca or Milan - Inter looks like a thea-party compared to these two. And there's plenty others that are 'bigger' IMO. And of course there's Satan and God. Nasty one.
Lyon- St. Etienne already a big rivalry gonna be even bigger next year with St. Etienne coming back to divison 1 and Lyon being one of the top teams in the country.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Manure fans consider Liverpool, Man. City and Arsenal bigger matches than Leeds (even if the war of the roses is a big match in itself)??? As far as the historic big derby's (or rivalries, since some aren't even in the same cities) in Europe, I'd say the Old Firm, Rome, Marseille-PSG, Istanbul and Athens (any of the big 3 is a big match), and Feyenoord-Ajax derbies are the most violent. Throw in some big matches in Eastern Europe (Red Star-Partizan, Steau-Rapid, Sparta-Slavia, Dynamo-Lokomotiv-Spartak), and you have a nice set there! There are others that note significant merit, but aren't as nearly as bloody. The Spanish (Real-Barca), Italian (Inter-Juve), Milan, Seville, Austurian (Sporting Gijon-Oviedo), Merseyside, North London, Ruhr Valley (Bor.Dtmd-Shalke), Manchester, Madrid, Turin, Genoa, German (Bayern-Bor.Dtmd), may have their heated moments now and then, but they usually end up as civilized affairs on and off the field. The first grouping, however, gets the usual mob violence before, during and after the game. Having said that, I think all of Europe take interest in the Spanish, Italian, and West Midlands (Manure-Liverpool)derbies, just like when South Americans know when River plays Boca. The Old Firm has its charm, but I doubt all of Europe checks to see the result in the next day's papers like they do for the Big 3 leagues. Just my humble opinion there.
Bayern Munich and real madrid have always been sworn enemies and always come into each others path in the Champions League.