Europe: 60 years w/o Jews and missing them terribly.

They were very good, but Canada had it totally institutionalized before they outsourced it to the Church of Canada

 

So wait, because of something that happened 70 years ago we are not entitled anymore to have an opinion on what is going on in the middle east?

(Ignoring the fact that a few good friends of mine, German and not, are Jewish).

 

OK, so you accept that the US was more xenophobic than the NL, that's a start. Your next argument is almost comical. While you believe that the US did not know the extent of atrocities until quite late, you do believe the Dutch knew, even when several Jewish holocaust survivor autobiographers report that the Dutch jews arriving at concentration camps were the first to die as they had no idea of what was going to happen to them. Primo Levi wrote that whereas the Greek jews, who grew up with antisemitism and learnt to fight for survival survived the longest, the Dutch arrived in their fur coats with their fancy suitcases. The Dutch jews didn't have a clue but the other Dutch should've known? No-one knew, ask Chamberlain.

As for Dutch cooperation: the Dutch were and are more anal than the germans when it comes to organising civic records. Every single citizen was registered in the Netherlands. Dutch jews just like every other good Dutch burgher updated their records with their municipality and they kept on doing that under nazi rule - that in itself made them easy to find. Also, after all, these were the Germans, regarded before the war by all of Europe as a civilised and sophisticated people even despite WWI, with the best universities in the world at the time, the best novelists, the best artists and the best philosophers at the time. The Dutch similar to all western countries including their jewish population thought that the Germans weren't capable of something that monstrous. Yet here you are conceding that the Americans weren't aware of it while slagging off the Dutch for not being aware of it? I am quite happy to concede that a good portion of dutch people were traitors. What I do have a problem with is you judging them. You have no right to whatsoever as you have no way of knowing what you would do in order to save your own skin in times of real crisis.

 

Why would you say that? I think the point of this discussion has to do with overall "European" feel towards Israel, which in many ways translates into a discussion about Jewish people.

 

Finally a sensible comment.

 

Again feel free to prove me wrong with actual facts. The Dutch have plenty of skeletons in the historical closet but mistreatment of jews under dutch rule is not one of them. I'm far more ashamed about our role in slavery as that did happen in the name of the Dutch kingdom.

 

How many American Jews died in Nazi concentration camps? I'm pretty sure the number was a hell of a lot less than the number of Dutch Jews who died in Nazi concentration camps.

 

Bullshit. That comment was a complete non sequitur.

Your assertion which has been roundly ridiculed since its posting has nothing to do with the middle east. It was actually a side comment you made comparing antisemitism in Europe and America. Here, let me repost it since you seem to have forgotten what started us off on this path:

 

I still stand by that fully. I find it baffling how some of you Americans are so full of yourselves and so blind for your own past mistakes. Have you no insight whatsoever into human nature? Do you really believe your image of perfection is everybody's image of perfection, including God's? God bless America and screw the rest eh? I'm not scared whatsoever to accept fair criticism of the NL, but the irony of it is that with the millions of things you can criticise the dutch on, you people time and again pick the wrong, totally irrelevant and indeed factually wrong Fox News type things. Do us all a favour and grow some social intelligence and ability for compassion. Let's hope for the worlds sake Obama knows better,

 

But full on collaboration with the Nazi's is.

 

Someone please nominate this for the stupid post thread please.

 

Not to mention the person she was assuming was American was, IIRC an ethnic Jewish person from Europe who ended up in the US for political asylum.

Wonder why he didn't resettle in Europe?

 

That, my friends, is the pathetic, nonsensical blathering of a man who knows he's been made a fool of but just can't admit it.

 

This thread gets more and more entertaining...

 

Partial collaboration with the Nazis is, definitely. But again it's pretty clear that the Jewish would have been quite safe in the NL if the Nazis hadn't occupied the country. So who's to blame?

 

Where was all that Social Intelligence and Compassion 1940 - 45?

In a cigar box on the mantle?

 

Johann is a chick.

 

And in your world you come out of this thread smelling of roses no doubt. Oh dear.

 

On what continent is Germany?

 

Good for Johan.

 

If Custer would have had a Sherman tank...

 

Yes Germany and the Netherlands clearly were in agreement in the war. Let's heap the whole of Europe together especially in that time of history.

Seriously I want to ask you about who taught you about history.

 

Sorry we had to come over and help you get it sorted out.

 

Sorry to blow your bubble but you didn't even do that. You left it to the british and the polish after the failed market garden operation. I guess there was more glory to be had for the US army in Germany after that. Hence the worst famine in Dutch history ensued. Catalogued under the 'things you'll never hear about on Fox News' archive.

 

Seems to me there was an episode of Twilight Zone where this almost happened . . .