This is something that really annoys me. Europeans and football (yes the european name, to suit us europeans) are like americans and baseball. Americans show the world how to play baseball (Japan) and theykeep it the american way, the japenese take the help and guidence with heart and let the americans teach because the americans know best IN BASEBALL because they came up with the first pro system. Europe invented football, we showed the world how to play it and the way to make it a success. Football is now South America's biggest sport, and the biggest up and comming sport in africa and asia. The 'euro snobs' are trying to change things in the american league to stop it becomming another league with little class (ie Scotland). We want to have at one point a world Champions League, but what is the point at the minute, it would be between europe's and south america 's club teams, the USA wouldnt get to the last 16. football works the European way because its different from every other sport, so quit with the euro snob crap, we know what we are talking about, after all, the USA has only had the game for 35 years, weve had it for 150
Actually I wouldn`t say that Europe has brought football to South-America. The south-american enthusiasm is a big point in the succes of international football! What would have been the World Cup without the South Americans? Brazi,l Argentina, Uruguay, you can`t overestimate their part in it.
Careful. You're going to get a Red Card. Americans involved in soccer are agreed upon one thing: the rest of the world does not understand the American soccer culture--and USA will be better than the rest of the world soon. Americans think that the U.S. WC success was not luck. They just think that we are developing genius coaches and players--at an alarming rate (even though we only have 2-3 players in proven leagues). Heck, most Americans on BigSoccer think the MLS is better than either Brasil or Argentinian league, far better than the Mexican League, and BARELY weaker than the Italian, Spanish, English and German League. Most Americans think the MLS is about on a par with the French League.
Yeah, but the south american clubs originate from european nationality founders, the south americans have had a massive part in world soccer, but it was the europeans who introduced it to them in the early 1900's.
Re: Re: Euro Snobs Hehe, change the phrase 'MOST Americans' to 'A FEW Americans", and you'll be a lot closer to the truth. It's just that 'the few' are 'the loud'.
Yes, I know that. But in a way they gave it back! There part in the success of football is important!
Yeah, right... So we should kiss your collective Europeans asses for the next... oh, how many years? Let us know so we can mark our calendars. And we'll make sure to be careful not to beat your amazing teams, especially when you tell us that they're clearly superior. If this wasn't such a troll post, it would be laughable. Obviously, the OP has never heard about Japanese baseball. Let's see--they have cheerleaders, use the same pitcher every day, train incredible amounts of time, and sometimes a team will let another team win because they deserve it. Yes, obviously the Japanese are respecting our traditions. What a complete load of crap.
150 years compared to us at 35? BS. The U.S. Open Cup has been going since 1914, and we used to have a professional soccer league until the depression wiped it out. Soccer just went away for a while in the mainstream over here, but it's coming back - hopefully. All of the stories I've heard have a European sailor (I think English) seeing the game played in, I think, Brazil and taking it back to his home, so I don't get this "we invented it thing". And even if you did invent it, what difference would it make? Eurosnobs still suck.
Look, if *Euro-snobs took a moment watch and support soccer in the US then most MLS supporters would be more receptive to your ideas. All most Euro-snobs want to do is just bash the MLS and have no time to support it in it's current form and help get the league to the point where would could integrate more of the traditional "football" concepts. -Small steps- we got rid of the shoot-out and now the clock runs in the right direction. Hopefully extra-time will be on the way out. But at the same time you have to account for the way sports are run in this county and the things MLS has had to do to support a growing league that's trying to find room among the major American sports, so don't expect a Euro League clone to pop up in America. Is MLS on the level of premier Euro leagues? No Can MLS improve? Yes! MLS may be able to improve eventually if a few Euro snobs bought some tickets, went to an MLS game and supported thier local team instead of watching the 2002 Champions League Final on tape for the 100th time. *Euro snob- Defintion based on Jeff Bradley's article: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/feature?id=266012&cc=5901
This is a load of ignorant crap. If you knew what the f you were talking about, enough to make such grand claims, then you should know things like the US Open cup is the 2nd longest running cup competition in the WORLD. And it's been around a lot longer than 35 years. Or should I get into how semi-pro leagues existed in the US back before the depresion? That is long, long, long, long before they existed at that level in many other countries in europe. And who the heck thinks they can sit around talking about Europe like it means something? "Europe"? There are a bazillion countries and cultures that encompass "Europe". One of which got the game started and many others in which it still isn't as big of a deal as other sports (Hockey in some, for example). Scottish soccer league is crap. So is the Polish, Belorussion, Ukranian, Hungarian, Czech, Norwegian, Finish, Lithuanian, Moldovan, Albanian, and all sorts of other leagues. That's why the best players go to Italy, England, blah, blah, blah. It has nothing to do with the rules of the game or some silly stuff like that. In fact, I would argue that trying to cling to traditions such as relegation/promotion and having seperate leagues for each country are HARMING the sport in terms of development. But that's a whole different thread in itself. So it the
Re: Re: Euro Snobs Actually, most Americans don't think about MLS at all. I get your point, but I wonder if most American soccer fans really bother to rate the league vis-a-vis the quality of European leagues. Until we get into real tournements with Euro clubs, there's just no way to know.
The fact that this debate exists at all is a small sign of progress. As a former card-carrying "euro/latam" soccer snob I have to say that having a real team in my home town (in my case, the Revs) to go and watch makes all the difference. Even with a plasma screen and Cantor and the late, great Longo doing the coverage, there is no substitute for being there. The quality of play is improving and while equality with the Argentine or better Brasilian leagues is wishful at present a goal of parity with the Dutch, Portugese and, ultimately, Argentine leagues is an excellent target to shoot for. It will take time, each generation of US players gets better; money, to bring good talent from Central and South America as well as Africa AND to give successful MLS players incentives; support, better crowds, more buzz, etc. but it can happen if folks who really love the game and want it to prosper on a professional level can forget differences (which are, by the way, part of the beuaty of the world game) and focus on what is at hand. A good product that needs improvement but has come a long, long way in eight years. JIM DOW
So just which team beat England in the WC back in 1950? The article linked to earlier in this thread is a nice "Eurosnob" overview, by the way. You see, Eurosnobs need not be (in fact, I believe they usually aren't) European at all. Rather, they're Americans who can't lower their standards enough to support American soccer. Most US soccer fans I know watch MLS and the English Premiership. We try and be as informed as possible about how the way the sport is played the world over. Plus, the Premiership is just so amazingly entertaining to watch. But there are those among us who are die-hard Arsenal (or ManU, Liverpool, etc.) fans, but view MLS as some hopelessly second-class product. Throughout your silly post you never once bother to list the things that Europeans would want MLS to do in order to make MLS into a league with "class." So let loose. What are we missing, we neophytes of football? Let us in on some of your learned wisdom. Just beware of one thing. As you say, as Europeans you know what you're talking about ... in Europe. If you dare make comments about the state of the sport in the US, you'd better show that you're familiar with this country and with the sport's history here. The moment you complain about our use of the term "soccer", the lack of "promotion/relegation in MLS" or the fact that we don't have any big-name European stars in MLS, well, all you'll be doing is showing your ignorance.
You make it sound like Europe is so pure that they never change the rules of games they didn't event. The last time I checked, basketball and hockey in the olympics had many different rules than that of the NBA and NHL.
A couple NUFC trips to the Champions League and all of a sudden Geordies are experts on everything? Back in your cave, troll.
That has more to do with the NBA and NHL changing their rules every year than the international sanctioning bodies.
The NBA never had legal goaltending, taking a ball out without the referee, trapezoid key, or a college size 3 point line. The NHL never had the blue line become a 2 line pass, disallowed fighting, or had an automatic icing. The rinks are also wider. All of these things were created by the international body(Europe) and had nothing to do with either the NBA or NHL changing their own rules.
The sooner that everyone stops trying to make MLS into a total euro-clone, the better. While I want MLS to follow the rest of the world with how the game is played (no OT, no shootout, etc), what everyone needs to remember is that MLS is an AMERICAN league. We already have many sports traditions that other countries do not. Other than rugby, is there any other major team sport in any European country? Like it or not, MLS will have exclusively American elements to it because, guess what, it's based in America!
The moral of the story: if Europe's pissed at you about your soccer, then you've done everything right. And please let us know how you've done it, we want to get in on the Euro bashing ourselves.
Re: Re: Euro Snobs don't mean to be picky (after all the original post was an obvious troll) but if the US Open cup started in 1914 and is the 2nd oldest cup in the world, well that puts it behind... England FA Cup 1871 Scottish Cup 1874 Argentina 1905 Austria 1897 Belgium 1908 Canada 1913 Czech Republic 1906 Denmark 1910 Hungary 1910 Mexico 1908 Holland 1899 N Ireland 1881 Norway 1902 Russia 1908 Spain 1902 Wales 1878 ...and probably more besides (I'm not wading through every rsssf.com cup link!). Some noteable absentees from that list, but in no way is it the second oldest in the world.
The usual LHUSOC qualifiers run along the lines of "continuously running cup competition outside the British Isles," or something. Because we're not such amazing pansies that we let little things like world wars stop our soccer competitions. But there is a real issue regarding the treatment of Eurosnobs. Should they, as some suggest, be packed onto freight trains and sent to death camps? Or should we make the bastards walk?
Re: Re: Re: Euro Snobs I waded through a few and not all the numbers above tell the full story. Some of the cups are discontinuous - like Mexico - and others appear to have been discontinued. Perhaps its the second oldest continuous cup in the world ... Don't realy know. Here's the page with the info: http://www.rsssf.com/cuphist.html