Euro 2024

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by comme, Jun 14, 2024.

  1. Krokko

    Krokko Member

    Nov 16, 2011
    Club:
    AIK Solna
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    Coaches come and coaches go, but Italy's decline continues. After the triumph in Berlin 2006, gli Azzurri have managed to win only 13 games in nine World Cups and Euros. Counting three points for a win, they have slipped to a ninth place in Europe during the period 2008-24:

    86 points: Germany
    84 Spain
    77 France
    68 Netherlands
    62 Portugal
    60 England
    58 Belgium
    53 Croatia
    49 Italy
    40 Switzerland
    27 Russia
    24 Denmark
    23 Sweden
    20 Poland
    18 Czech Republic
    17 Wales
    14 Slovakia
    13 Turkey
    12 Greece, Ukraine
    11 Austria
    9 Iceland
    8 Serbia
    7 Hungary
    6 Romania, Slovenia
    4 Ireland, Albania
    3 Northern Ireland, Finland, Bosnia
    2 Scotland
    1 Georgia
    0 Macedonia

    The average ratings are not impressive:

    6,95 Gianluigi Donnarumma
    6,40 Nicolò Barella
    6,05 Alessandro Bastoni
    6,00 Lorenzo Pellegrini, Riccardo Calafiori
    5,85 Bryan Cristante
    5,75 Luciano Spalletti (coach)
    5,70 Federico Chiesa
    5,65 Andrea Cambiaso
    5,60 Davide Frattesi
    5,50 Jorginho, Gianluca Scamacca
    5,35 Federico Dimarco
    5,05 Giovanni Di Lorenzo
    Team average: 5,82

    Counting only the outfield players, the average would be 5,73: only Scotland have a worse rating (5,56).
     
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  2. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #127 PuckVanHeel, Jun 23, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2024
    Always nice to see your ideas PDG. I'd agree yes Casteels looks right now good. Van Basten jokingly said Courtois has self-willingly put himself into permanent retirement now (as I indicated before; Holland & catholic Southern Netherlands tends to be pro-Belgium). KDB - I already said something about him and his first game.

    You said in an earlier tournament you like Verbruggen too. What do you think of Ake? I would think he is not too far off, same for Virgil - see the Sofascore grade vs France (but yes, despite the nice volley in the first game also that corner kick goal for Poland, even if others were more to blame, and one very misplaced pass). I can imagine some feel Oranje has only tried to play for one half so far. I'd think Ake is not too far away but also maintain vs Poland the opportunity was simply on that left hand side (same for Gakpo).

    Either way, I have missed some games and say also someone as Reijnders (who you mentioned too positively) I haven't seen very often. Two games for Milan, that friendly match against Scotland I can remember, that is about it. Koeman likes him certainly. With all names available, it is not a certainty Atalanta (joint-)captain and trophy lifter De Roon (with 2nd most minutes for Atalanta in EL run) would actually play. Which is I heard the professors saying in the Totally Football Show podcast. His YT highlights for Milan look quite good, yes.

    Kante, Ruiz, Musiala are very hard to argue with (but I switched off the TV when the commentator couldn't stop talking about Kroos, lol).
     
  3. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I was possibly generous to Ake over Hernandez (or I could see it like a toss of the coin) to include him in the XI after one game, but vice versa after 2 games (both had their best game first I think anyway though so far).

    In that first XI after one game I had chosen Verbruggen yes (I think that's what you mean is it - earlier post maybe? Or I forget one of my old non-Euro 2024 related posts maybe), although I guess I feel like that's a close call too. Goalies and defenders don't necessarily have a huge amount of action and involvement after 2 group games I suppose anyway, but I was feeling like Casteels was doing enough last night potentially to get the nod for my XI at this point, and he's made some good to excellent saves and also generally been assured and mistake-free so far it seems to me. Belgium are one of the countries with a high number of top-rated goalies in football history I suppose now (albeit it might be a bit early to include Casteels in that assessment) relative to other nations and their population size I suppose?
     
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  4. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Yeah, Belgium has three goalkeepers with a Fifa golden glove (I'd say 1986 is open to debate but I have this also with other tournaments where a big name wins this). Also some excellent others like Piot or in the eyes of people abroad Jean Nicolay, who got BdO votes. Maybe they are actually the only country since the voting started (in 1978) to have three? Preud'homme was for a time Pfaff his back-up indeed (and already highly rated - he was the idol of Van der Sar - Preud'homme was for his time very good with his feet). Not sure Casteels is quite of that class.

    I am sure many would place Neuer - with his howlers and errors at four successive tournaments - higher than Courtois when it is all done, but not me.

    Feel the same way for the (relative) clobber Gerd Muller vs the swan Van Basten even though many, many reputable lists don't have that (no problems with Puskas, Ronaldo, Eusebio as you know - I am neutral about that and can put my sympathies aside).

    If Lukaku had the touch of Kluivert he would have been monster. A one man bulldozer.
     
  5. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    It was a quite open game. Defenses of both quite open.

    Think the atmosphere helped too - a bit similar to Oranje vs Ukraine in 2021 for my feeling. Cologne (Köln, Keulen) is not too far away unlike other tournaments or in corona time.

    A decade ago Kompany (then captain) remarked he would like it to see atmospheres like in nearby countries more often. Of course the linguistic divide is not helpful etc. but it seems it has come good (maybe Kompany was too young to remember the atmosphere at previous tournaments; the relatively good 2002 performance with a strong game vs Brazil was of course on the other side of the world).

    Nice post!
     
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  6. Titanlux

    Titanlux Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Nov 27, 2017
    In a few days I will get the missing ratings from Mundo Deportivo and I will publish definitive data from the 2nd day of the first phase with the sources I include. Provisionally, the best individuals of this second day would be:

    En unos días conseguiré los ratings que me faltan de Mundo Deportivo y publicaré datos definitivos de la 2ª jornada de la primera fase con las fuentes que incluyo. Provisionalmente, las mejores individualidades de esta segunda jornada serían:

    De Bruyne: 8.51
    Mamardashvili: 8.30
    Nico Williams: 8.21
    Fabian Ruiz: 8.04
    Cucurella: 8.04
    Donnarumma: 7.96
    Gundogan: 7.95
    Bernardo Silva: 7.88
    Musiala: 7.88
    Pepe: 7.75


    And the provisional averages taking into account the two matchdays:

    Y los promedios provisionales teniendo en cuenta las dos jornadas:

    1.- Fabian Ruiz: 8.23
    2.- Musiala: 8,17
    3.- Gundogan: 7,67
    4.- Lamine Yamal: 7,64
    5.- Cucurella: 7,62
    6.- Mamardashvili: 7.48
    7.- De Bruyne: 7,45
    8.- Eriksen: 7.36
    9.- Kanté: 7.36
    10.- Kroos: 7,32
     
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  7. pep pep

    pep pep Member

    Aug 17, 2019
    my best XI second round:

    A Mamardashvili- Coufal, Akanji, van Dijk, Cuccurella - Hojbjerg, Shaparenko, Bernardo Silva, Gundogan, N. Williams - Lukaku

    B Donnarumma- Walker, Saliba, Pepe, Nuno Mendes- Kante, Elsnik, Musiala, De Bruyne, Kramaric - Jovic

    C Trubin - Kounde, Trauner, Andersen, Robertson - Hjulmand, Tielemans, Baumgartner, B. Fernandes, Haraslin - Budimir

    D Strakosha - Bolla, Zabarnyi, Le Normand, Theate - Soucek, Fabian Ruiz, Schranz, Laci, Doku - Cristiano Ronaldo

    team average rating:
    1.ESP 6.00
    2.POR 5.79
    3.GER 5.67
    4.AUT 5.67
    5.CZE 5.64
    6.FRA 5.62
    7.BEL 5.60
    8.NED 5.40
    9.DAN 5.36
    10.CRO 5.29
    11.ALB 5.23
    12.UKR 5.15
    13.SUI 5.14
    14.ENG 5.00
    15.SLO 5.00
    16.SCO 4.92
    17.ROU 4.91
    18.SER 4.79
    19.HUN 4.64
    20.SVK 4.60
    21.ITA 4.53
    22.GEO 4.46
    23.TUR 4.38
    24.POL4.33
     
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  8. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    #133 Sexy Beast, Jun 23, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2024
    Ive done it for Germany - Switzerland as well. I think i will stop there:

    At the first half:

    Neuer - 6
    Mittelstadt - 7.5
    Tah - 5.5
    Rudiger - 6
    Kimmich - 6.5
    Kroos - 7.5
    Andrich - 7
    Wirtz - 6.5
    Gundogan - 7
    Musiala - 8
    Havertz - 7

    Full time:

    Neuer - 7.5 / 6.6
    Mittelstadt - 7 / 7.2 (off)
    Tah - 5.5 / 6.5 (off)
    Rudiger - 7 / 6.9
    Kimmich - 6 / 6.8
    Kroos - 7.5 / 8.2
    Andrich - 6.5 / 7.1 (off)
    Wirtz - 7.5 / 7.4 (off)
    Gundogan - 6.5 / 6.6
    Musiala - 8 / 7.2 (off)
    Havertz - 6.5 / 6.8
    ---
    Schlotterbeck - 6 / 6.6
    Raum - 7.5 / 7.8
    Beier - 5.5 / 6.6
    Sane - 6.5 / 6.9
    Fullkrug - 7.5 / 7.3

    Team average: 6,78
     
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  9. Kroos46

    Kroos46 Member

    Juventus
    Italy
    Jun 6, 2023
  10. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Not the very biggest Kroos fan here (in the way one of our TV commentators cannot stop talking about him) but 5.5 is way over the top. 6.5 or 7.0 I'd say, maybe 7.5 when in a good mood, even though the Swiss did well to neutralize him somewhat, close the passing lanes, and expose his limitations (that he always had - think of Uli Hoeness his commentary - but especially at this age).

    Switzerland is surely for me by miles the best country without ever having an ESM team of the month selection (and better than some with three or five).
     
  11. Krokko

    Krokko Member

    Nov 16, 2011
    Club:
    AIK Solna
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    Is this a mediocre Euros or is it just very even? Not a single 8 rating so far, the highest mark is 7,70: Nico Williams and Gianluigi Donnarumma in Italy-Spain and Jamal Musiala vs Scotland.

    Hoping for a classic Lukita Modrić performance now!
     
  12. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I'd say Musiala has come close to some of the best Zidane euro performances (except Portugal 2000, arguably Spain 2000, Croatia 2004), albeit against relatively weak opponents. Opponents that likely don't qualify in a 16 teams format.

    24 teams and with numbers three going through remains a bad system. 16 teams has more quality and more jeopardy, and thus better games. Even if there are sometimes tranquil phases (e.g. England vs France in 2004 - it became 'legendary' in the last 15 minutes).
     
  13. ChizzyChisnall

    Feb 2, 2017
    Club:
    AC Siena
    The last round of matches has been really poor. Last night it is Scotland who needs to win, only getting their first shot on target at the 98th minute. Germany played a dud as well. Now today neither Croatia nor Italy looked like they have any quality.
     
  14. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    @PuckVanHeel you like controversies. What do you say about Italy's referee today?
     
  15. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    I think you are overreacting. It has been a high quality football from what I've seen so far. International football is usually absolute shit, but it isn't at this tournament.
     
  16. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #141 PuckVanHeel, Jun 24, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2024
    No issues with firing the machine gun on him.

    Makkelie is for me the one who brought England to the euro 2021 final. You can search those posts back from that time. Said it then and still believe so (just as Van Gaal spoke the truth about Messi and the 2022 WC).

    Against Germany and Denmark on Wembley he carried England towards the final (the same referee officiating two KO games from the same country is unusual and against policy, then another Dutchman for the final). Of course a crunching tackle by Philips on Kroos was not seen. In the past we had referees like Blankenstein, Charles Korver and Van der Kroft who admitted they'd kick out the Germans if the opportunity arises and it is not very obvious to do so. Blankenstein claimed he would never let a (South-)German team win (which is factually not true but still).

    So no, not the biggest fan of Makkelie. The euro 2021 final referee however... Kuipers was for a long time seen as one of the best ever and imho rightly so. With an impressive resume. The euro 2021 final was his last match at a high level (the 2021 NL supercup the very last). I repeat: no fan of Makkelie. The man from Curaçao.

    edit: often professional referees and ex-referees are mixed on him as well. And yes, there is a culture here of referees explaining themselves (which Fifa and Uefa does not like and forbids for CL games, but still).
     
  17. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    I mean 8 minutes of stoppage time with not doctors coming out on the field (maybe once?). Zaccagni scores at 97:18 yet zero seconds was played after the goal. These are just straight facts without going down the "fouls" rabbithole.
     
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  18. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    You don't need to convince me.
     
  19. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Germany 1-1 Switzerland: Hosts grab stoppage-time equaliser to deny Swiss and top Group A at Euro 2024 - TNT Sports
    Switzerland: Sommer 7, Schar 7, Akanji 8, Rodriguez 7, Widmer 6, Xhaka 8, Freuler 7, Aebischer 7, Ndoye 7, Embolo 7, Rieder 7. Subs: Vargas 6, Duah 6, Amdoni 6.
    Germany: Neuer 6, Kimmich 5, Rudiger 6, Tah 6, Mittelstadt 6, Andrich 6, Kroos 6, Musiala 6, Gundogan 6, Wirtz 6, Havertz 6. Subs: Raum 7, Schlotterbeck 6, Beier 6, Sane 6, Fullkrug 7.
    Scotland 0-1 Hungary: Steve Clarke's side crash out of Euro 2024 as Barnabas Varga in scary collision - TNT Sports
    Scotland: Gunn 7; Hendry 6, Hanley 7, McKenna 6; Ralston 6, Gilmour 6, McGregor 6, Robertson 6; McTominay 6, McGinn 6; Adams 5. Subs: Armstrong 6, Shankland 6, McLean 6, Christie 6, Morgan N/A
    Hungary: Gulacsi 6; Botka 7, Orban 6, Dardai 6; Bolla 6, Nagy 6, Schafer 7, Kerkez 6; Szoboszlai 7, Sallai 8; Varga 6. Subs: Nagy 6, Szalai 6, Adam 6, Csoboth 8, Nagy 6

    I'm basically watching the majority of one game for the 3rd group games, so watched the majority of the Scotland&Hungary national anthems (which were nice renditions so hey maybe I can give a 9.5 rating for those lol!) but the majority of the Germany vs Switzerland game: I feel like Schar and Akanki might even be verging on having played/defended their way into my Group Stage XI largely because of this game (that's the area of the XI I'm most uncertain on - I'm not sure I'll be seeing a lot of the Romania game or France game to be honest which will make my XI even more estimated given I currently had Dragusin and Saliba as the CBs still too). I think Germany were less good than they had been though; certainly Gundogan and Musiala were for example I think, Kroos maybe a bit overall although still playing similarly, Wirtz maybe not less good than he'd been in the other 2 games but his tournament had been less stand-out than Musiala's....)

    Croatia 1-1 Italy - Mattia Zaccagni scores last-second equaliser to send Italy through, breaks Croatian hearts - TNT Sports
    ITALY: Donnarumma 8, Darmian 6, Bastoni 6, Calafiori 7, Di Lorenzo 6, Barella 7, Jorginho 6, Pellegrini 7, Dimarco 6, Raspadori 6, Retegui 6. Subs: Frattesi 6, Chiesa 6, Scamacca 6, Zaccagni n/a, Fagioli n/a.
    CROATIA: Livakovic 8, Stanisic 7, Pongracic 7, Gvardiol 8, Sutalo 7, Kovacic 7, Modric 8*, Brozovic 7, Pasalic 7, Kramaric 6, Sucic 7. Subs: Budimir 8, Ivanusec 7, Perisic 7, Majer n/a, Juranovic n/a.

    Albania 0-1 Spain: La Roja ease to win to go perfect in Euro 2024 Group B - TNT Sports
    Albania: Strakosha 6; Balliu 7, Ajeti 7, Djimsiti 7, Mitaj 7; Asani 6, Ramadani 6, Laci 6, Asllani 7, Bajrami 6; Manaj 6. Subs: Broja 7, Berisha 6, Hoxha 6, Muci n/a
    Spain: Raya 8; Navas 7, Vivian 7, Laporte 6, Grimaldo 6; Torres 8, Zubimendi 6, Olmo 7, Merino 7, Oyarzabal 6; Joselu 6. Subs: Le Normand 6, Lopes 6, Yamal 7, Morata 6, Baena n/a

    If I was erring towards a generous/positive entertainment rating I might just about stretch to a 6.5 for Italy vs Croatia (and Germany vs Switzerland) I guess overall.
     
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  20. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Makkelie is completely destroyed over here. Not for the first time. Uefa and Fifa seems to like him though. The KNVB however doesn't give him all the big games, not as much as other top class referees of the past.

    Meanwhile, Oranje and Belgium has also the worst record and win percentages when officiated by a German referee. That is fact.

    Call me a conspiracy theorist if you like but yeah, definitely not a fan of this fella.
     
  21. ChizzyChisnall

    Feb 2, 2017
    Club:
    AC Siena
    Is 8 minutes of stoppage time really that unreasonable?

    1. Frattesi got called for penalty at 51:27, the penalty was called at 52:43 (after 1:16 VAR time). Modric took the PK at 53:42. That is a 2:15 delay.

    2. Modric scores at 54:15. The celebration and substitute of Chiesa for Dimarco took another 2:25. Italy kicked off in the center circle at 56:40.

    3. Modric YC at 59:38, restart at 59:53.

    4. Ivanusec YC at 72:36, restart at 72:58.

    5. Pongracic YC at 77:30, restart at 77:50.

    6. Stanisic YC at 81:36, restart at 81:57.

    The Croatian yellow cards took a total of 1:18.

    7. Stanisic went down with a cramp 87:03 to 87:48, another 45 seconds.

    2:15+2:25+1:18+0:45= 6 minutes and 43 seconds.

    There were also four more substitution windows in normal time:

    69:06 to 70:03 Perisic and Ivanusec on for Sucic and Kovacic,
    74:05 to 74:22 Scamacca for Raspadori
    79:22 to 80:09 Majer for Modric
    80:45 to 81:07 Fagioli and Zaccagni for Darmian and Jorginho
     
  22. ChizzyChisnall

    Feb 2, 2017
    Club:
    AC Siena
    I would say that the big teams apart from Spain and to less of a degree Germany have mostly been disappointing (Italy, France, England). Smaller nations with a lot of big 5 league talents have underwhelmed as well(Hungary, Turkey, Ukraine, Serbia, Scotland).

    It's the teams that wouldn't usually qualify for a 16-team Euro that have been impressive (Romania, Georgia, Slovenia).

    Besides the two Belgium matches I struggle to remember a high quality match in this tournament.
     
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  23. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    If I speak for myself, it is adding up by now. In the Germany vs Hungary match it was the same story. The long time and experienced journalist Jurriaan van Wessem wrote on Twitter: "Makkelie and the hosts, also a theme". (it is not only euro 2020, no)

    Also for that Italy vs Croatia game it is not only the 8 minutes extra time but also that Croatia was defending with nine (shades of France vs Germany 1982 there; fouls, injuries on the grass, defending with nine, goal).
     
  24. ChizzyChisnall

    Feb 2, 2017
    Club:
    AC Siena
    I think the issue is the standard of adding extra time is not uniform across all referees. With Euro 2024 not instituting the extra long zealous added time rule like the last world cup, there will be large discrepancies. Personally I thought that the night before with Hungary vs Scotland, the time added wasn't enough even though it stretched past 10 minutes.

    I just noticed that Croatia had a man down on that tying goal. Good observation. I liked that Makkelie played that advantage in that sequence.

    Overall the standard of refereeing in this tournament has been better than the quality of play. The only consistent poor point has been the ruling of corners (final shot of Italy vs Albania with Donnarumma's save not being called for an Albanian corner, I think there is one Lewandowski header off Saliba ruled a goal kick today). SATO have been pretty good. The only team I thought that has really been hard done by is Czechia. In the Portugal game I counted at least 4 Portuguese rough plays in the 2nd half that weren't punished altogether or sufficiently. The Georgia match (not the two handball decisions) had a lot of fouls going against Czechia as well.
     
  25. ChizzyChisnall

    Feb 2, 2017
    Club:
    AC Siena
    Add Austria to the list of impressive teams. Rangnick has been tactically really good so far (maybe Manchester United fans may not agree). He plays 5 midfielders who played as #6 or #8's in their careers last match against Poland and now uses wingers well against the Dutch. Even though Austria has a lot of weaknesses in defense (cannot deal with physicality nor speed) and lack any options beyond Arnautovic on the striker zone, they've been playing really well against tough opponents. Very mature first half performance against the Dutch in the heat.
     

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