Euro 2024: Italia v Spagna

Discussion in 'Italy: National Teams' started by calabrese8, Jun 17, 2024.

  1. TorontoCalabria

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    Donnarumma; Di Lorenzo, Bastoni, Calafiori, Dimarco; Jorginho, Cristante; Chiesa, Barella, Frattesi; Scamacca

    yes the idea is Barella would play as the 10 instead of Pellegrini and Cristante would play at CDM.
    could just be testing Cristante as second half substitute to play for the point.
     
  2. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023
    First match on Wednesday is Albania vs Croatia. Hoping for a 0-0. Even if there is a loser in this one it becomes a 3 team group.
     
  3. 'Uaglio

    'Uaglio Member+

    Jun 8, 2004
    NYC
    I'm a big believer in adapting to your opponents and doing so to attack their weaknesses. I just hope Spalletti doesn't "over correct" for Spain. Inserting too many "lumberjacks" in the middle of the park means we really give up possession and it is a counter-attack game. The problem is when you counter on Spain you have to link up well and have good feet to get it out of there and flip the field.

    He's thinking about Retegui because he views him as someone who will run his ass off chasing the Spanish possession. He must not think Scamacca will do it, and frankly as we've all seen, Gianluca has to work on his conditioning just a bit more. No doubt Scamacca is the much more talented player, but Spalletti clearly has a strategy in mind here.
     
  4. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    They’re saying now Spalletti is going with the Albania lineup.

    IMG_2166.jpeg
     
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  5. 'Uaglio

    'Uaglio Member+

    Jun 8, 2004
    NYC
    Well then Scamacca better be ready to run. Hopefully he is up for it. If he can move away from his marker with his back to goal and distribute to the mids making the runs, that will be trouble for Spain.
     
  6. 'Uaglio

    'Uaglio Member+

    Jun 8, 2004
    NYC
    Who is going to mark Yamal? Pellegrini isn't. Dimarco is not our best defending fullback. That's a bit of a concern on that wing. Calafiori is going to have to rotate over and help a lot which will expose our middle. That's why I didn't mind the idea of Cristante being at CDM.
     
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  7. TorontoCalabria

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    I don't see Spain keeping a clean sheet against us they will have to score 2 to get the 3pts.
     
  8. TorontoCalabria

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    Di Marco Califiori Barrella all have pace on the left side. I really don't fear Yamal he's still a kid and his numbers are nothing to fear. Yes he is pacey but he is not at the level yet to dominate a game on his own. If Spain play fantastic and he's in a position to contribute he can make a pass no doubt but he's not there yet as a solo phenomenon. Spain should be more worried about marking Chiesa on their left with Cucurella Ruiz Nacho. That's not a very physical or defensive left side. Nacho will have to be defending for 3.
     
  9. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I’m fine with whatever lineup Spalletti puts out. If he wants to put out a more reactive lineup and play behind the ball, it makes sense. If he wants to put out the lineup of Albania I’m also fine with that. He probably believes that Italy have the skill to go toe to toe with the Spanish and that they have as much to fear as we do.
     
  10. TorontoCalabria

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    yes and we are not in a must win situation so testing out his fluid formation against a team where there will be more space is worth a shot. if we were to be defensive from the jump and then were broken down anyway and then needed to turn it on against Croatia it could hurt our momentum.

    If we go in and play well and maybe catch them it could go a long way. For me this is an italy where our starting 11 has more on the ball talent than we've had in a generation but as soon as you bring in too many alternates it really losses it's shape. If we can keep the 11 then bring on Fagioli for Jorginho to rest and Cambiaso for Chiesa and Retegui Scamacca swap the quality won't drop too much.

    The thing I'm surprised by is the Fratessi wild card that Spalletti is using. I assumed that would be used as subtistute but he seems to want him to be a chaos agent pressing high in almost free role where he can't be marked.

    Worst case we could be exposed as maybe that lineup and shape was only solid against and Albania and won't be against a Spain. Could get into a situation where they really break our fluid shape and pin Di Marco back into a back 4 LB position majority of the game. He's going to have to run like crazy.
     
  11. gumbacicc

    gumbacicc Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    USA
    I know Pellegrini did well to set up the first goal, but I thought he was off most of the game. If he's gonna sub one of those two guys, I would take off Pellegrini. Frattesi always seems to pose some threat of scoring.
     
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  12. gumbacicc

    gumbacicc Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    USA
    I don't think our midfield is all that inferior to the Spaniards--definitely not when compared to years past. I can see Spalletti opting to take the game to them.
     
  13. Vieri's Left Foot

    Roma
    Italy
    Jun 8, 2022
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I agree with @'Uaglio on this. It's not that Yamal is going to single-handedly control the game, and everything is going to run through him. If Spain breaks up Italy's possession and gets it up ahead to Yamal on the counter with a 1v1 on Dimarco, he's going to get around him, and then it's a scramble. It only needs to happen once.

    In the past, Spinazzola not only had the elite pace to deal with someone like this, but he was more of an actual asset in defense, whereas Dimarco is an asset in attack and a liability in defense.

    This depends on whether Dimarco has any real defensive responsibility in such a situation, or if he's just there to overload the left during the attack, and the other defenders rotate over to a back three. If I'm recalling correctly, that's kind of what Italy did last match, but Dimarco did almost nothing going forward, and I can't remember the last time that happened.

    I don't want this to turn into a Trent Alexander-Arnold situation, where everyone knows Dimarco is a weak point, and then it plays out that way to the surprise of noone. I'm sure Spalletti has a strategy in place, it's just those counter 1v1's that worry me.
     
  14. TorontoCalabria

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    I think our midfield is on par. Rodri is the best 6 in the tournament but after he and Kroos
    Jorginho is still the best at that role. Pellegrini and Fabbian Ruiz are on par and Barrella is better than Pedri.

    Even in 2021 people forget that Enrique dropped Morata and basically played with a 4-6 formation because he feared losing the midfield to Jorginho Verratti Barella. This gave Spain possession but they also created very little and were going to go out in 90 minutes until they scarped it and brought on Morata and we switched off during a basic run.

    So the domination by their midfield was really misunderstood in 2021. It worked and it didn't they lived by the sword died by the sword. Even 2016 we had no trouble with them. You have to go back to 2012 world cup final to find them bullying us in midfield. 2008 it was fine and 2012 group stage we were on par.
     
  15. TorontoCalabria

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    I think there is a risk we get pinned back into a 4231 shape and Di Marco is forced to defend one on one but this is the risk with the fluid 4231. The idea is that Califiori is defending the left side. For this reason I would rather have Cambiaso on the right and Chiesa in Fratessi's spot in a true 3421. It's basically dependent on how fluid and tactically smart we can be in this 4231/3421 hybrid against a top side. There is risk no doubt.

    Di Marco is more comfortable in a 352 for sure.
     
  16. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Yes. Technically this is the most on par we’ve been with the Spanish in a long time. But let’s see what the field says. My only concern is Jorginho
     
  17. 'Uaglio

    'Uaglio Member+

    Jun 8, 2004
    NYC
    He's a concern for me too. The Spanish are their weakest when you hit them in transition quickly and Jorginho just always slows play a little too much for my liking.
     
  18. TorontoCalabria

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    Jorginho's physique at this stage is a question. I would like to see Fagioli come on for him at the 60th minute. He's likely in his last tournament for us as a stop gap for Fagioli Tonali but he was virtually flawless against Albania. Even for Arsenal we see how exposed Rice is without Jorginho acting as his brain.
     
  19. TorontoCalabria

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    However, Spalletti doesn’t want to leave the ball to Luis de la Fuente’s boys this time. He wants to play on par with La Roja.

    “We want to test ourselves against the top sides like Spain to see where we are at in terms of performance levels,” he said.

    “We try to play a positive brand of football and keep possession. I believe if you give the opposition the ball, you’ll come away the worst of the two. We’ll try to dominate proceedings from time to time. We’ll see if we’ll do a good enough job to do so.”

    https://football-italia.net/spain-italy-spalletti-succeed-mancini-failed/
     
  20. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    The only positive thing Jorginho brings is leadership & experience. Notice in games he yells at his teammates. Tells them where to be etc. I don’t discount this. However, online there are azzurri fans who are touting his passing statistics in the Albanian game. If the vast majority of your passes are horizontal and played short, you could have completed 1000 passes in a game. It means 0.
     
  21. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023
    Thought the same thing. Look at the video posted yesterday of Pirlo. Those were defence-splitting passes, gaining Meters. Absolutely controlling tempo with class. That England QF performance from 2012 was legendary. Jorginho had many passes but little in substance. Percentage rate of successful passes was not extraordinary at all.
     
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  22. TorontoCalabria

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    think of Jorginho and Barrella as two guys doing what Pirlo did as one. yes Jorginho makes many safe passes but he keeps things ticking. when he was out of the team during qualifying we were disjointed. I'd rather have Tonali and maybe Fagioli can come on second half for Jorginho and win that position but you need someone to quarterback as a regista even if it's making simple passes in close space.

    Jorginho was brought in by Arteta to run the midfield because Rice could not and Arsenal nearly won the league he's still operating at a high level even if it is very basic on the surface. Let's not forget he own the CL and the Euros as a regista in 2021 and was 3rd in Baton d'or voting.
     
  23. Azzurrifan87

    Azzurrifan87 Member

    Frosinone
    Mar 29, 2015
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I’m a firm believer that for Italy, it is always the best approach to just match Spain in possession best you can. I think the blueprint is the opening 1-1 draw in 2012, where we just played to win the game and do it with some style. Spain had no idea what was going on, and they naturally will never believe Italy can match a their possesion game. But the truth is with Spain’s possession game, they leave gaps and they lack defensive pace, so really the best thing to do is play positively, move the ball, and attack. I don’t know if we have the players to do it, but Ventura was even successful doing this against Spain. I think we lineup, play to move the ball forward, and think to win the game. Spain’s arrogance and overloading of possession players always poses a weakness. People think they are great but 95% of their lineups historically lack any semblance of balance. Let’s take our chances to just play positively to win. There is already a risk of losing just by playing Spain, so if we do lose so be it. Let’s try to just play positively and work hard.
     
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  24. Hulk_Hogan_Italia

    AC Milan
    Italy
    Aug 17, 2005
    Toronto, Canada
    Is it me, or does it seem like every other country has more supporters than us. We were outnumbered by Albania and I feel we will be outnumbered by Spain and Croatia.

    I think we will see Scamacca shine. We need that aerial threat vs Spain.
     
  25. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Historically, Italy has always had bad travelling support. Unlike other nations, ultra groups in Italy can’t put aside their differences and support the national team. If there are good crowds of Italians, it’s because there are a lot of Italians in the local population. Not saying that Italians in Italy don’t buy tickets, but nowhere to the level of other countries
     

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