EURO 2024: Is there any hope????

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by Orange14, Jun 17, 2023.

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  1. BPBlueSox

    BPBlueSox Member

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Aug 21, 2003
    Georgia
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    So if we are being honest the French should have scored twice or thrice probably. And Oranje scored the only goal. So 0-0 is probably fair. Still sucks.

    Real important point though
     
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  2. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member+

    Jan 26, 2007
    Job done. I’d take the one point, and move on. No teams have failed to qualify to the knockout stage with four points. Who knows who’s waiting in the KO round (too many permutations), it’s a whole new ball game then.. maybe it’s even favorable finishing second, or third. I feel that Oranje can go toe-to-toe with anybody!
     
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  3. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    For a long time I thought Koeman was really F de Boer in disguise. What a worthless match with close to zero attacking. If this is the kind of football this team will be playing I'm not sure I want to watch.

    Memphis was worthless. Frimpong too naive and easily double teamed. Gakpo had two moments in the first half and that was the extent of is game. MF with lots of lazy passes that were easily intercepted. de Vrij is too slow now but van Dijk and Ake had good games. Dumfries was forced to defend and that's not his game.

    I'm sure they will get a result against Austria and go through but likely not as group winners.
     
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  4. Brilliant Oranje

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Mar 4, 2023
    Amsterdam and Marbella
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I'll take the 0-0
     
  5. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member+

    Jan 26, 2007
    Verbruggen is the MOTM for me (Oranje side). That one save with his left leg on a close-range where he made himself big was... HUGE! Virgil and Ake played well. De Vrij and Dumfries (too many clumsy fouls!), not so much.

    I thought Xavi in midfielder role was much better than him banished in the RW. It was a long overdue decision from Koeman. Frimpong RW experiment may end here, though -- he's better suited as an impact player coming off the bench with his blazing speed. When the space is closed down, he looked confused. An experienced and more naturel RW like Malen might work better.
     
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  6. bunbohue

    bunbohue Member+

    Apr 5, 2005
    • We need to improve the defense.
    • Thanks to Griezmann who squandered 2 sitters.
    • When France attack on both sides with those through ball, the defense/midfield did not come back on time leaving the area near the penalty arc quite open. France did not exploit it and it scared me.
    • Austria game will not be easy. If Austria attack then the game will be more open.
    • Should go for a win to win the group to get easier path but it will be difficult as France will score more goals vs Poland whose defense is not good.
    • Memphis is not good. I would bench him for Brobbey or Zirkzee to start and Weghorst comes in late. I don't think Koeman will. Probably the same 11 to start.
     
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  7. wilson00

    wilson00 Member+

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Any thoughts on schouten. Shud he be part of the team going into future. I mean from a investment point of view. He is just too plain and doesnt have to little skill set.
     
  8. wilson00

    wilson00 Member+

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    After euros. It good though the next coach can pick this up.
     
  9. richsavare

    richsavare Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jan 28, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #1309 richsavare, Jun 21, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2024
    I had a feeling 0-0 might happen tonight as both teams showed too much respect for one another.
    The goal for me was never going to count as Dumfries was near Maignan although the VAR sure took it’s time to make it official.
    Problem tonight for Oranje was they played way too slow and a lot of passes were not good enough at times.
    Memphis was brutal and his lack of effort is hard to watch.
    Most of his movement was out wide or coming back to the ball trying the blind pass or flick is amateur hour.
    Koeman should have ripped him off at the half and put Brobbey on to occupy space and work the French defenders.
    Xavi better on the 10 unfortunately could not get the ball enough.
    Nice finish on disallowed goal.
    Dumfries was not much of a factor sitting back tonight while Frimpong was stranded against multiple French defenders.
    Some dumb fouls by DD also.
    Gakpo could have had his way with Kounde I thought but again he was isolated himself.
    Both wide players received no combination work from Memphis which sadly aided the French defense.
    MF play pretty solid and Schouten gave a good account himself and was wrongly booked by English Referee Anthony Taylor.
    Reijnders ran his socks off once again.
    Defense gets a shutout but had a couple of shaky moments which I guess is to be expected when defending too deep and allowing too much possession.
    De Vrij scares me with his clear lack of pace and some poor giveaways.
    He was lucky on one occasion when he got caught trying to play France offside and fortunately he got away with it.
    Ake had a busy night and they tried to run him a few times but he hung in there strong as ever, and he had some nice interventions off the ball reading the game well and getting his body on guys or blocking shots.
    He did have one or two moments of slip and fall, and a bad pass that would have been better off not occurring, but no one is perfect and Ake is a very strong consistent player for Oranje.
    Virgil commanding as ever tonight
    It was interesting watching France shade over towards him to not allow him to be the outlet and De Vrij was the French preference for possession.
    I would expect a lot more of this against the high pressing Austrians.
    Just a quick note on that matter as we will see a the huge loss of Frenkie and Koopmeiners who can play against press quite well. Frenkie is the best in the world against this type of tactic.
    The subs contribute little for me
    Super Weghorst can’t perform on this match because of his lack of pace and Koeman should have put Brobbey or Zirkzee on, but saying that I knew he wouldn’t.
    Gini did take a couple of fouIs while Veerman had some poor loss of ball with bad passes.
    He did have one critical block.
    Geertruida came on and he was crapping his pants and looked so afraid of the ball passing everything backwards.
    Verbruggen with some strong GK play tonight and smart easy possession.
    French were happy to draw tonight too I thought and left other attacking options on the bench.
    Koeman needs to figure out about Memphis.
    Maybe De Ligt for De Vrij as Austria high press is coming and the Bayern Munich man is better on the ball.
     
  10. richsavare

    richsavare Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jan 28, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    He’s pretty solid and is effective playing simple and staying closer to the central defenders.
    Somewhat vulnerable if he gets beat high up the pitch and not the fastest.
    Wrongly booked tonight, but does a good job robbing the ball by playing the opponents touch right away.
     
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  11. Brilliant Oranje

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Mar 4, 2023
    Amsterdam and Marbella
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    We did okay

    Everybody stop bitching!!
     
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  12. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member+

    Jan 26, 2007
    If anybody be worried, it should be France. As a heavy favorite to lift the trophy, without Mbappe, all the sudden they became average and were lacking imagination. Oranje were also without their best player (Frenkie) and obviously not exactly stellar either, but nobody expected them to go far, so pressure is off.

    I also think, if somehow Oranje made it far in this tournament, we would look back at this game and remember as the day Koeman grew a pair of balls to finally give Xavi the chance he deserves in midfield. Which almost paid a handsome dividend, had the goal stayed. Up and onwards Oranje.
     
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  13. 58964


    A couple of days ago I wondered/doubted a combo Dumfries/Frimpong would work as they both need the space to put down the pedal to the metal.
    Given they both need the same space it could end in either of them or both turn ineffective.
    Well, it didnot work. Only in the first 90-120 seconds of the match Frimpong could use his speed, but that was it.
    So the conclusion is you can't have both on the pitch.
     
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  14. Well, a couple of days ago I was very critical about Depay and my conclusion after the France match is his days are done.
    He's no Orange Squad material anymore.
     
  15. richsavare

    richsavare Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jan 28, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I disagree.
    Oranje had zero speed of play tonight and we’re not helped by Memphis who did not create any type of combinations and link up play so the French defenders had enough support to take away both flanks and Xavi at the 10 didn’t get the ball enough either.
    Missing the midfield maestro Frenkie and Koopmeiners as well.
    French were somewhat conservative as well which led to these cautious actions.
    Both teams played with too much respect.
    Oranje need to figure out the plan against the high pressing Austrians.
    De Vrij was allowed on the ball and he looks vulnerable to me.
    You could see France shading towards Virgil to take him away at times and I would think Austria will do the same albeit with higher pressing players.
     
  16. richsavare

    richsavare Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jan 28, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  17. richsavare

    richsavare Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jan 28, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  18. Jpows

    Jpows Member+

    F.C. Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jun 4, 2018
    I only caught the second half unfortunately. It seems I caught the worst half for us. In any case, I saw enough to draw conclusions I already shed light on before.

    Depay just doesn’t cut it anymore, as a matter of fact, I can guarantee that Zirkzee couldn’t have possibly done worse today as Depay didn’t do jack, just like the first game. At this point he’s just a liability and Koeman can’t keep using his experience and goal tally with the NT as an excuse anymore.

    With that being said, Koeman will likely start Weghorst before even thinking about Zirkzee. I think Weghorst is better coming off the bench as a pinch hitter instead of a starter. But that’s just me.

    Also, did my eyes deceive me or did Dumfries play as a wide attacking player at some point in the second half? He looked so out of place. Malen would have probably done more damage at that point in the game. He was a menace in his cameo in the first game.

    Also, Gini, ugh. Enough said regarding that.

    I thought Xavi did well considering he didn’t see enough of the ball. Was almost the hero of the night too. Much better as a 10 than a wide player. I really hope he stays there. Just not with Depay in front of him.

    Schouten was solid, nothing more, nothing less. Wish we had a N. de Jong type player though to put some fear into the opponent lol.

    Reijnders did well, could have done better though. Lost possession unnecessarily at times. I feel as though he can still improve as the tournament progresses and start to really mark his stamp on games.

    Dumfries hasn’t been as involved this Euro as he usually is for the NT. He wasn’t bad though. Maybe give Frimpong a chance at RB?

    Gakpo did well, got some crosses in, always willing to take on his marker and make something happen. I feel like his goal is coming.

    Aké wasn’t as good as the first game, though the opponent was of a different calibre of course. I still thought he was good and probably our best defender overall. He’s one of the first names on the starting sheet IMO.

    Shout-out to Verbruggen. That save on the point blank shot by Griezmann was top drawer stuff. I hope he keeps growing into the tournament.

    I really hope to see Gakpo - Zirk - Malen at some point with Xavi behind them, though very unlikely, at least not as starters. I feel they’d do great together. Please no more Depay.
     
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  19. Kelvin Cheung

    Kelvin Cheung Member

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    May 13, 2019
    Absolutely, as I have been critically saying of Depay that he was not reliable nor consistent with his intentions to rely on his tricks but he is not technically that gifted. Get rid of him, Zirksee please but pretty sure Koemen does not have that gut.
     
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  20. 59496



    Koeman took a gamble with selecting players with little playtime/returning from injuries.
    In the case of Memphis the gamble failed, as he for a second time provided nothing to the attack.
    He's not worthy to take the topscorer crown from Robin van Persie.
    Koeman is leaning too much on his relation with the players.
    He should have the ruthless attitude of Michels and van Marwijk. The latter gave players the distinct message that to become a winning team you have to win/fight to win every match, including friendlies. His threat was if you don't show up in friendlies you're risking your spot in the selection.
    Look back a couple of years ago, when I started moaning about Depay. Under van Marwijk/Michels he then already would have been given the message to do better or take a hike.
     
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  21. My line up for the Austria match:
    ========================Verbruggen========================
    Dumfries========de Vrij====xxxxxxxxxx====van Dijk==========Ake
    ========Reijnders=========xxSimonsxx====Schouten============
    Malen===================xxZirkzeexx===================Gakpo
     
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