Euro 2012 Group B: News & Analysis

Got to really feel sorry for Denmark here. A good team, but thrown completely to the lions. No chance against Germany and Holland, and the Portuguese will be out for blood.

 

It's a shame that one among Portugal, Netherlands & Germany is going home early -- ideally all these 3 teams are good enough to be in the semifinals, and as such, any and I mean any of these 2 could go through.

I feel Germany will make it out of this group. They have a mix of some top quality youth with some very good experienced players. They also have some in-betweens, young players who have a bit of big tournament experience such as Muller & Ozil. They should make it through.

I am going to tip the Dutch to join them. They do not have a great defence, but their attacking quality is embarassingly good. Sneijder, Robben, Van Persie who is in the form of his life, Huntelaar (top scorer in qualifying), Van Der Vaart, the hard-working Kuyt.

Portugal, sadly, I feel will just come up short. They are overreliant on their 2 wingers -- Cristiano Ronaldo & Nani, and if teams can find a way of subduing them, I just don't think they have enough quality in the middle of the park. I feel both the Dutch & Germans will thus figure out a way to stop them.

Denmark, on the other hand, are not as strong as these 3. Plus they tend to underperform as compared to qualifying (we saw this in the WC 2010). Their stars are Rommedahl (33 yrs old now) and Bendtner (who needs about 5 chances to score one goal). So I feel they will surely go out in this difficult group.

 

Yes, the fact that Poland & Ukraine both were seeded led to some unbalanced groups. And this was the result. Group A is weak, and Group B is tough.

One has to like Germany and the Dutch. But I never underestimate the Danes, and any team with CR7 and Nani on it always has a chance.

By far the toughest group. At some point, a German team will fail to advance. It has to happen sometime, doesn't it?

 

No reason to feel sorry for Denmark, since Denmark has always produced their best results, when they are able to come from behind and surprise against bigger countries, so it would be more difficult for Denmark to be in a group with more cautious defensive minded nations like Greece or Ukraine... In any case, while Portugal is the most overrated team in Europe in my opinion, Denmark is usually one of the more underrated...

I mean, Denmark has now finished ahead of Portugal in the last WC-10 and Euro-12 qualifiers, but still ppl all over the World think that Portugal clearly are better than Denmark.... ppl easily seem to forget that soccer is a team sport and is not only about who have some bigger "names" in their squad... But really, who is the bigger football nation, when you look at the past ?...

Portugal have reached 10 WC- and Euro finals in the past, while Denmark have reached 12 ... Since 1986 Portugal has qualified for 4 World Cups, which is exactly the same as Denmark, Portugal has finished in 4, 11, 17 and 21 place, while Denmark finished in 5, 9, 10 and 24 place... hardly much difference there, but of course Portugal got their 3rd place from 1966 (which btw also was the only year England has ever won anything important)... At the Euro finals, Portugal has one Silver medal and two 4th places as their best results, Denmark won the Euro-92 and also have a 3rd and a 4th place as their best results... At the Olympics Portugal has never won anything, while Denmark has 1 gold, 3 Silver and one Bronze medal... I rest my case, regarding past results....

As for the Danish WC-10 fiasco, then it was a terrible injury-struck and over-the-hill team Denmark was fielding... this Euro-12 team is a new younger Denmark on the rise, so if Denmark is not badly struck by injuries in key positions (mainly Daniel Agger, William Kvist, Christian Eriksen, Nicklas Bendtner) they are going to surprise at the Euro-12, because they will be highly underrated and not feel much pressure, unlike Germany, Holland and Portugal... So this is actually a perfect group for Denmark...
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The most important Danish players are Daniel Agger, William Kvist, Christian Eriksen and Nicklas Bendtner .... and Bendtner always show up in the big games for Denmark... He is on the other hand often crap in friendlies and against the smaller countries.
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Maybe it's because they watched the games rather than going to Wikipedia to collect data on "positions" in World Cups.

 

That's why even in this thread many think we don't stand a chance against the Netherlands and Germany. I don't know why exactly but a lot of people tend to say that. Maybe, it's because many people don't like Ronaldo or didn't like the fact that we have improved a lot since 1996. So, actually, i think we may be a little bit underrated.

True, but we beat you by 3-1 at home, also, we also didn't have a lot of important players in the game against you, in Denmark. In addition, we had a draw against Cyprus and lost agains Norway during the transition from Queiroz to Bento. I'm not excusing our bad campaign, but being ahead of us by 3 points doesn't say all about our current form. Specially if we take into consideration that we were knocked out by France, Germany and Spain in the last three major competitions, which were all finalists of those competitions. We also lost against the mighty France of 2000, in the semi-finals.

Yes, you're right about that. Before the Figo generation, we were really poor in terms of results. Still, you forgot to mention the many titles we have in younger players tournments. For instance, we won two times the world championship U-20 and were finalists last edition.

Currently, i think Portugal has better players than Denmark as it has a worse team than Netherlands and Germany. Still, the difference is not that big and that's why I don't risk to make any predictions. It's the beauty of this group.

 

The usual excuse from Portugal is that they have a poor coach or they perform poorly because of injuries... Denmark also had some key players injured in the home mach against Portugal and it looked even worse in the WC-10 qualifiers, where Denmark was forced to use no less than 38 different players, but still won the group ahead of Portugal.... Portugal were very good at home in the Euro qualifiers but were outplayed all over the pitch in their away match Denmark and not only in defense... so it's just bad excuses... the table and past results never lie... a country is no better than their actual results..
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You didnt watch your key match in Denmark then... since you were tactically outplayed all over the pitch and not anywhere near getting a result...
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We played a lot more games than the one where we had a makeshift defense. And let's not forget how we always play subpar in qualifications.

In 2010 we were also "overrated", ended up qualifying below Denmark (woe, they said) and would never pass the group. We passed, were told Spain would humiliate us and although we did lose against the eventual champions (who were the best team in the world at the time), they needed an offside goal to beat us. What happened to Denmark? That's right, thumped by Japan in the group and out.

Denmark is a solid team and can cause trouble to many on any given day, but to say you are on par with Portugal is delusion.

 

As i said, I'm not making excuses. Simply, you can't just evaluate the teams just for the final standings. One match is one match. Anything can happen. And you don't know half of what happened during those days when we draw Cyprus. Luckily for you, your coach never underestimated us.

We were 2nd in the world cup, everyone said we would be trashed by Brasil and even be beaten by Ivry Coast. Instead, we drawed in both games and were only stopped by Spain, the world champions.

And it's funny that you say we are always excusing, but you did the same thing when trying to justify your bad performance in the worl cup.

 

Err ... germany failed to advance in both Euro 2000 and 2004. Holland is the country that seemingly always advances from the group.

 

So because Portugal play prettier football that's more appealing to watch, it means they are better?

You can't get away from the fact that the 2 teams have similar finishing positions in world cups over the past 25 years. Just because that fact exists on Wikipedia, doesn't mean it isn't a convincing argument.

 

Don't think it has been mentioned here, but the average FIFA ranking for group B teams is 5.75. Meaning on average, you get a top 5-6 team in the world in this group (compare that to a ~32 ranked team for Group A).

Talk about a group of death!

Say what?

Portugal is ranked #7 in the world atm and it would shock nobody with real insight in the game if they were in the top 2 in this group.

 

And here comes BocaFan, with his usual mouth foaming when it comes to Portugal.

Where did I say prettier or appealing? I said watch. I know you're trying hard to troll, but you still need to try harder.

Oh, and people who talk about "positions" in world cups really know nothing about football. Positions!

 

I wanna know who made the thread starter an expert?

your analysis is so shit and full of blatant bias

 

If anyone is interested, Germany's record vs. the teams in the group:

Vs. Denmark

Played: 27 matches, Won: 15, Draw: 4, Losses: 8, Goals For: 53, Goals Against: 36

vs. the Netherlands

Played: 38 matches, Won: 14, Drawn: 14, Losses: 10, Goals For: 75, Goals Against 63

Vs. Portugal

Played: 16 matches, Won: 8, Drawn: 5, Losses: 3 Goals For: 24, Goals Against 16

 

For what it's worth, I appreciate the time you took to open the thread and write an introductory post.

Not that I agree that Germany/Holland not advancing amounts to a major upset. Portugal and Denmark are really good. Anyone can beat anyone. Such is football. But it applies especially to this group of death.

That being said, I do like Germany's odds of advancing, even if I won't deny that such a tough group makes me somewhat nervous.

One factor worth considering: Germany has a lot more qualitative depth. So injuries before or during the tournament are less likely to be detrimental. Portugal and Holland aren't in such a fortunate position.

 

I have no idea what will happen in the Germany vs Holland and I can not wait to see it.
Germany vs Portugal.. I dont see Portugal being able to beat germany.
Germany vs. denmark.. anything is possible but I see Germany winning.
Holland vs Portugal... I see Holland winning it (as always, anything is possible)
Portugal vs Denmark.. its hard to call, it could go either way.

 

my 2 cents:

Portugal v Germany: the germans have Portugal's number. I predict a loss against them
Portugal v Holland: portugal has had success over the last few tournaments against holland and the games have been exciting. I predict a win
Portugal v Denmark: portugal will not fool around against these guys and will be looking to make amends for the defeat at home during the qualifiers, for sure. I predict a win

 

Outside of Brasil and Spain there was a subgroup and the the Netherlands was definitely in that group. I asked some Inter fans who they considered the three most important players in their 2009-2010 triple and they said to me Sneijder for his vision, Milito for his goals and Maicon for his energy. If they hadn´t changed the set up Sneijder would have won the Ballon d´Or as he won most journalist votes. Robben brought Bayern on the other side of the bracket to the CL final almost single handedly. Combine these two players and you have gold. But that's not the end of it.

Now the second remark. This made me think. I thought the Netherlands have earned their position and status by the results they have gotten. So it feels like this remark is taking away from that. Then I realized you probably mean that the Netherlands does not have such a surplus of quality (the back line is a popular argument) that can explain the results. Maybe, but to create a top team there are a lot of factors to consider. Here are some characteristics of a top team and with that things you can work on to improve it:

expert teams.....

1. Develop shared mental models.

• They anticipate each other’s needs and actions.
• They can communicate implicitly.
• They interpret cues in a complimentary manner.

2. Learn and adapt.

• They self-correct.
• They learn from past decision-making episodes.
• They adapt coordinating processes to dynamic environments.
• They compensate for each other.

3. Maintain clear roles and responsibilities.

• They manage expectations.
• They understand each other’s roles and how they fit together.
• They maintain clarity of roles while maintaining flexibility.

4. Possess clear, valued, and shared vision.

• They develop their goals with a shared sense of purpose.
• They guide their decisions with a common set of values.

5. Develop a cycle of pre-brief -> performance -> debrief.

• They regularly provide individual and team level feedback to one another.
• They establish and revise team goals and plans.
• They dynamically set priorities.
• They anticipate and review issues/problems of members.
• They periodically diagnose team decision making “effectiveness,” including its results, its processes and its vitality (morale, retention, energy)

6. Have strong team leadership

• They are led by someone with good leadership skills and not just technical competence.
• They believe the leaders care about them.
• Leaders of expert teams provide situation updates.
• Leaders of expert teams foster teamwork, coordination, and cooperation.
• Leaders of expert teams self-correct first.

7. Have a strong sense of “collective,” trust, teamness, and confidence.

• They manage conflict well; they confront each other effectively.
• They have a strong sense of team orientation.
• They trust other team members’ “intentions.”
• They strongly believe in the team’s collective ability to succeed.

8. Manage and optimize performance outcomes

• They make fewer mistakes
• They communicate often enough; they ensure that fellow team members have the information they need to be able to contribute
• They make better decisions
• They have a greater chance of mission success

9. Cooperate and coordinate.

• They identify teamwork and task work requirements.
• They ensure that, through staffing and/or development, the team possesses the right mix of competencies.
• They consciously integrate new team members.
• They distribute and assign work thoughtfully.
• They examine and adjust the team’s physical workplace to optimize communication and coordination.

I have identified a couple of key concepts why this Dutch team (that has the highest winning ratio of any Dutch team in history) and show overlap with a number of above mentioned points. I don't say they play football that is candy for the eye, but I do recognize their results, while we had maybe more talented teams in the past. Certainly in the seventies. Some say the 1998 group was also more talented. Some say the 1988 group was more talented. Point is we had enough talented generations in the past. The key concepts:

1. Winning is a habit. The more you do it, the stronger it gets, the more of a second nature it becomes also in games where you can't reach your level. Friendly's or not, every game is an opportunity to grow the habit necessary to win a tournament. There is not an idea in the group to be conservative or tactical with energy and so you can throw games. There is only one idea : Put your try hard pens on and WIN THE GAME.
2. Every game is used for personal growth. With BvM they are in a process. That's how they experience it. players you not expect to started to talk quite self aware and constructive. The point here is "do I reach my level game after game". I don't look at the opponent. My performance does not depend on the quality of my opponent. The game is "to reach my level". Results flow from that.
3. Acceptance in all it's forms. From his leadership, the captain in the team, each other and the rest of the staff. All the time I hear van Marwijk talk about acceptance. No, actually he poses the question in front of the camera. "Hoe ga je daar mee om?". How do you deal with that" and "Kun je dat accpeteren?" which translates into "Can you accept it". It is a central issue for him. When BvM started Sneijder was a problem. RVP and Sneijder had a fight over who could take a free kick once. All those things are in the past and new problems do not arise or spin out of control. He has worked this concept and there is calmness in the team now, so energy comes free to focus on the game and not on each other.
4. A fixed system so players get to know the system from inside out and know what is expected of them.
5. You don't have to be friends to deliver a top performance together. This creates an atmosphere where there is no faking. It's oke. You don't have to be friends with all 23 others plus the staff. You still can act professionally with each other whether you like him or not. No hypocrisy. Nigel de Jong said his relationship has cooled down with van Marwijk yet he is still in the team. From that relaxed point of view the atmosphere actually gets better and that is what you see. There are a lot of friendships in the group and with others they keep distance or in any case don't get into their allergy. This prevents a lot of phenom so again the energy goes to the performance. This concept takes care of honesty so emotions don't boil up.
5. Joy. Players that come to the Netherlands also feel pleasure. They look forward to see the boys they feel good with and want to play the game together. There is an unconstrained atmosphere also thanks to concept 5. Has there ever been a better atmosphere in the Dutch NT? I see a smile on VDV's face talking about the NT and he is often a sub!
6. Ownership. The Dutch players see the NT as their project.
7. Loyalty. BvM defends his players and staff when they are attacked. A Dutch journalist was trying to create a schism in the group with some inside information. BvM actually reacted quite childish. Even started to use kinder garden tactics like "your lip starts shaking" or something like that. Hilarious kinder garden stuff. However Sneijder also watched that broadcast and sees how his trainer gets between him and the press and he gets one message very clear. If I don't cross him, he will defend me at all cost. That guy stands behind me. With Bayern we see the same attitude to his staff.


I can't remember the Dutch having such a good team geist as at this moment. We were famous for going down as a result of infighting with Euro 1996 as a tragic low. Van Marwijk has managed the flow and process very good. So lucky enough in football there is a lot you can do in order to win and be the best. The best does not equal quality alone though. Generation 74 was more gifted, but were almost knocked out by Belgium and so the world would almost never have seen total football.

 

For Group A and B this is also an interesting article:

An advantage to be in Group A or B for Euro 2012 – especially when it comes to the semis