ESPN's Wilbon tells Klinsmann to "get out of America"

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by CarlosE, Jun 6, 2014.

  1. Mattbro

    Mattbro Member+

    Sep 21, 2001
    Well it said in the NYT article that came out the other day that Klinsmann was upset about Donovan's comments.
     
  2. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    Well, he shouldn't be upset about someone being truthful ... though maybe he is thinking that the guy has enough in the tank to practice through pain but isn't willing to suffer for the cause.
     
  3. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Uh, that's all fan speculation. There is nothing suggesting Jurgen was livid at that comment. Could it have been something which he noticed and when added to a few other things caused him to make his decision to cut Landon? Of course.

    But this whole Landon fiasco is starting to turn into those ancient stories which were passed down from generation to generation and each time the story is told, someone adds a little more here, twists the plot just slightly there, and before you know it what's being told simply is not what happened.
     
  4. Mattbro

    Mattbro Member+

    Sep 21, 2001
    No:

     
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  5. Spursfan1

    Spursfan1 Member+

    Sep 7, 2010
    Atlanta
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So according to those close to Jurgen. who are these people? what does this mean? conjecture and hypothesis. nothing concrete that said he was livid.
     
  6. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly. That's exactly what I said. It was a few/number of things which played into it which caused him to make that decision. That was one of them.

    Where does it say Jurgen was livid? You trolling? Intentionally misreading? What is it? There's nothing there implying he was livid at Landon's comments.
     
  7. Spursfan1

    Spursfan1 Member+

    Sep 7, 2010
    Atlanta
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At best you can say he was disappointed by them.
     
  8. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    How did you get that quotation thing to work?

    Anyway, Donovan's motivation has been suspect since he begged to be loaned to MLS in 2001. Klinsmann, of all people, should have been well aware of that. Vogts and then Völler - two very good friends of JK - were in charge in Leverkusen then. And Augenthaler wasn't exactly a stranger either.

    The guy is what he is.
     
  9. Mattbro

    Mattbro Member+

    Sep 21, 2001
    I don't know who they are. Are we going to discount reporting by one of the world's most reputable newspapers now? Quite obviously Klinsmann was angry about the remarks, otherwise they wouldn't have been one of the factors in his cutting Donovan.

    Of course, I'm "trolling" because you don't agree with me. :rolleyes: Sure, he was overjoyed at Landon's comments! So much so that they were the final straw causing Klinsmann to cut Donovan. Get the ******** out of here with your "are you trolling" nonsense.

    I love the semantics here. Let's go back to my original statement and see whether it changes anything at all. It's a double-standard, period. Klinsmann thinks it's acceptable when he himself is honest to the press, but it's "disappointing" (or whatever other term you want to use) when Donovan does it.
     
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  10. Mattbro

    Mattbro Member+

    Sep 21, 2001
    A whole bunch of copying and pasting, unfortunately. The one-touch quote button appears to be gone, or at least I'm not skilled enough to find it.

    Right. Everyone understands this, and it's never been a problem for USMNT head coaches in the past (and thank goodness). It's a problem for Klinsmann, and that's legitimate as he's the guy making the roster decisions. But he's rightly being criticized for this decision given what Donovan has shown in the past.
     
  11. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And there's the typical response we get from the "other side". A bit of a straw man, a slice of hyperbole and an insult sprinkled on top.

    It's not about agreeing, it's about misrepresenting facts. You claimed he was livid at Landon's comments, there's no evidence of that. Overjoyed? No one argued that, hence the straw man.

    You're not trolling at this moment btw, you're throwing a temper tantrum.
     
  12. brianasher

    brianasher Member

    Sep 22, 2005
    KY
    Club:
    Sunderland AFC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I could care or less about Wilbon. I was flipping through channels and see Timmy Howard doing an interview on UTI with those fools and thought about taking a listen. The first question I heard was something along the lines of: "Well they always say soccer is gonna take off in America...." and I turned it off. They are so out of touch with reality it isn't even an issue anymore. The guys on ESPN who continue their war on all things not football or basketball will have their days sooner than later.
     
  13. Mattbro

    Mattbro Member+

    Sep 21, 2001
    And you're being about as condescending as you can be. People always disingenuously throw around the "trolling" accusation when they disagree with another poster.

    And no, it's not a strawman, it's you arguing semantics because you don't want to be wrong.
     
  14. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You appear quite confused. I didn't ask if you're trolling due to disagreement. I asked due to clear misrepresentation of facts/quotes.
     
  15. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    They should bring it back. That's my verdict and even Wilbonehead agrees with me.

    Actually, Bruce was besides himself after the Ghana match but he was one of the people who helped build the monster (really, it was Leiwecke and the AEG). Someone posted what was said in that bus after the match - and I remember who - and Bruce was pretty steamed and called a certain player - or two - pwussies for the way he/they played. One of those things that no one in the media talked about because Bruce was out anyway and the players clammed up.

    Additionally, Bruce was none too happy with the 2013 sabbatical but his hands were tied there as well.
     
  16. Mattbro

    Mattbro Member+

    Sep 21, 2001
    I didn't misrepresent anything. You don't like it because you're on the Klinsmann defender side of the debate, so you're accusing people of being trolls because they disagree with you. Which is a sad tactic on a message board.
     
  17. Mattbro

    Mattbro Member+

    Sep 21, 2001
    I remember that very clearly. I also remember thinking at the time that Bruce was unfairly lashing out at certain players, because Donovan didn't play poorly in 2006, but other players that Bruce had always relied on did play poorly. Bruce was upset and under a lot of pressure and it seemed like he was venting. But apart from that one incident he seems to have had a pretty good relationship with Donovan over the years, to the point that he also didn't mince words when commenting about Donovan's exclusion from the WC roster.
     
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  18. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When asked to back that assertion up, your response:

    "According to those close to Klinsmann, getting rid of Donovan was a result of an accumulation of things. Klinsmann felt Donovan’s play had slipped and was put off by what he saw as Donovan’s inconsistent motivation. The sabbatical was part of it, and Klinsmann’s feelings were crystallized when Donovan told ESPN during training camp that at his age, “I can’t train 12 straight days in a row and have 12 great days in a row.”

    Then when again confronted with that not being evidence of Jurgen being livid, you reply:

    So yeah, this isn't about disagreement, it's about you trolling and intentionally misrepresenting Jurgen's words and not being able to source your accusation, while also ignoring what you were originally confronted for.

    Show anything suggesting Jurgen was livid at those comments. Still waiting.
     
  19. King_Kazma

    King_Kazma Member

    Jun 2, 2014
    People really overreact to the Klinsmann Kobe quote.. From his perspective.. It makes sense and I can see why it is hard for him to understand.

    Generally, older stars are over paid in America for a reason. Unlike in europe, or germany, the rich teams can't always get whatever player they want exactly when they want them. Most of the time, they have to wait until they hit free agency or are older and more accomplished.. And teams HAVE to overpay older players, in order to get them simply to outbid other teams. Even the Lakers probably gave kobe that money because even an old broken down kobe, had they not given him a 20m a year deal, someone else would have. Almost positive.

    This is for balancing reasons, which european leagues don't really believe in. You can just buy a young star player in their youth if you want to. If the NBA worked like a european football league, the Lakers would have just bought Lebron from the Cavs when he was in his early 20s. They then wouldn't have felt the need to overpay an older kobe to keep him around. The Lakers could basically just take whoever they wanted just like Bayern seems to do to other teams in the BL
     
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  20. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    #145 sidefootsitter, Jun 7, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2014
    Oh, I am sure he was venting because he was just about to lose the juiciest gig a US coach can land.

    That said, Bruce is a double-faced weasel if I have ever seen one. He will switch from a brown noser to an aggrieved slanderer ("the USSF is being run by a fan" is one of my old time faves) in a second .... but that served him well over the years. Klinsmann goes through his run-of-consciousness rants that often contradict something he said only a month earlier but nothing that Bruce has ever said was accidental. In that regard, JK is another Uli Höneß type, which is - to once again bring up the remark Wilbon resented - is reflective of his German background. I happen not to like it because I believe that a coach needs to know when to shut the heck up and speak in nothing but cliches but, at the same time, I dislike Arena's duplicitous nature a lot more.
     
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  21. RayRay616

    RayRay616 Member

    Aug 16, 2013
    Klinsmann is certainly entitled to his opinion, and so is Wilbon for that matter. As the figure head of U.S. soccer, his comments and actions are under the microscope, and open to public praise or scrutiny. Publicly singling out a fellow sportsman by name (Bryant) in a negative context, about that player's past, present, or future value in order to point out a mystifying cultural trait is in my opinion, classless. Great leaders, great coaches, great players stay above comments like that. Would Gregg Popovich (Spurs coach) publicly refer to a great older player's value in a negative context just to make a point about what he perceives to be a confounding cultural trait? I may be wrong, but it doesn't seem likely. The point is, Klinsmann should carry himself in a more distinguished manner. Klinsmann should remember that he claims to understand the "American way" and he's "not coming in to be the European guy". Therefore, he should be a bit more sensitive about certain cultural traits inherent in the sports landscape in this country (whether they are valid or not). There are a lot of new-comers interested in this sport right now, if he truly wants soccer to grow in this country, don't turn those people off. He can start by not negatively singling athletes out publicly. Stop with the brutally honest schtick, no one wants to hear we "can't win", and stop making general assumptions about Americans pay for past accomplishments. Just bleeping coach man.
     
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  22. whitecloud

    whitecloud Member+

    Jan 25, 2009
    Gulf Shores, AL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For whatever its worth I certainly haven't heard any current or recent USMNT players going out of their way to defend Donovan.
     
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  23. usfootball20

    usfootball20 Member+

    May 15, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wilbon just doesn't know anything about soccer. I don't respect people who go on rants about something they don't know anything about. It's fine to criticize the Kobe comment (because he does know basketball), but don't talk about not winning anything yet (what was he supposed to win? he won Gold Cup and Hex, no WC yet to judge...)
     
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  24. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    Nor should they. The roster is set and the coach is returning for four more years.

    To quote Bill Belichick, "I will only talk about players who are here". (naturally, after a question about the "players who are here", he chooses to say nothing again ... Jay Carney's got nothing on the guy)
     
  25. Cubanlix63

    Cubanlix63 Member+

    AFC Ajax
    Feb 19, 2014
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Ranting about stuff he knows nothing about is part of his job.
     

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