ESPN: NCAA looking at playing-with-pros rules

Discussion in 'College & Amateur Soccer' started by Emile, Oct 20, 2009.

  1. Emile

    Emile Member

    Oct 24, 2001
    dead in a ditch
    This may have been discussed previously by those in the know, but this was the first I have heard of a movement to end the rule about losing eligibility from playing as an amateur alongside professional players. Soccer is not mentioned in the article, I don't think, but it would clearly be one of the sports with the most impact. This would lessen some of the confusion over the recruiting of certain foreign players, but also, it seems to me, open up new possibilities for high-level American players.

    According to the article, the DI Amateurism Cabinet has recommended this change.
  2. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    I read this article on ESPN and immediately posted it on the MLS boards because I think it has great impact on MLS because it makes it easier for the league to sign select players in their academy and not jeopardize the NCAA eligibility of the rest of the players, most of whom are destined for college soccer anyway.

    Not sure if it has an immediate impact on college soccer or not.
  3. Dsocc

    Dsocc Member

    Feb 13, 2002
    If not immediate, reasonably soon. And as you note, the benefit cuts both ways. MLS can now sign those U18 Academy players, keep them on their combined U17/U18 teams temporarily, and not affect the eligibility for the rest of the college-bound guys.

    As for the international players, I don't suspect the rule change will much affect that liar's club. But at least the domestic players won't be penalized for playing with professionals.

    It's progress. And anything that moves the developmental youth model from the rancorous and underachieving USYSA, and closer to the demands of USSF/MLS, is a very positive step for the sport.
  4. Hararea

    Hararea Member+

    Jan 21, 2005
    Seems like terrific news ... as others have noted, the current system is completely arbitrary and rewards liars.

    Here's hoping that soccer coaches don't oppose it the way hockey coaches do.

    USvsIRELAND Member+

    Jul 19, 2004
    Any update to this?
  6. Dsocc

    Dsocc Member

    Feb 13, 2002
    No update. But I can tell you that at least one Dutch Eredivisie club has started a PDL team that's purported to include professionals on the roster.

    USvsIRELAND Member+

    Jul 19, 2004
    wow. where is it located?
  8. Dsocc

    Dsocc Member

    Feb 13, 2002
  9. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    Here's the e-mail address of the author of the original story linked in the first post of this thread.

    (I'm not posting a state secret, it's at the bottom of the article.) You can always e-mail him and ask for an update. Maybe he'd even do a story on the rule's potential impact on soccer.
  10. kickeru

    kickeru Member

    Feb 23, 2006
    I thought PDL teams already were permitted to have paid players who play along with the college and high school guys.

    Is it different if the players are paid by a parent club?
  11. GetGame

    GetGame Member

    Jan 1, 2006
    Vaughan, ON, CANADA
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Nope - pros player can't play along side NCAA players (regardless of whose pays them).

    Some PDL teams have pros (i.e. Whitecaps Residency), but that means they can't have any NCAA players on the roster...
  12. Dsocc

    Dsocc Member

    Feb 13, 2002
    Technically, the PDL can do whatever it wants - have pros or not. It's the NCAA players that can't play on teams with paid professionals.

    As a practical matter, most PDL teams are strictly amateur, to capitalize on the availability of intercollegiate players. So it doesn't make business sense for them to roster professionals if it eliminates the eligibility of the collegiate player pool.

    The change in NCAA rules is supposed to take effect next August, which means the current rule would technically still apply for the upcoming PDL season.
  13. b21_tru

    b21_tru New Member

    May 22, 2009
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    the ncaa rules are extremely confusing!!! i need help, check out my new thread in the college forum
  14. AguiluchoMerengue

    Oct 4, 2008
    South Carolina
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    i think america have do decide, are we gone use the college system or not?

    if the answer is yes, because of tradition, american culture or whatever, then they need to stop playing around and put this kids to play all year long like they do it every where in the world.

    college kids arent ready to play vs south americans or european academy players.

    if the answer is: "we want college soccer to continue to be a joke long ball wrestling type of game."

    then mls, usl, pdl and the reserves have to have a longer season, they need to find the way to play all year long.

    it is embarrasing to see altidore and donovan strugling to make an impact in europe, not to mention purdy or the other forward from dallas.

    college soccer kids need to play all year long, college games need to be every weekend, they need to use fifa rules, not multiple subs and time outs and all that, play the real game!

    unless ncaa decides they want to make serious soccer players, we are going to struggle to win concacaf championships and we are gone get embarrased when going to south american tournaments.

    i support the college game but come on, you know with a 3 months season, you gone get whooped in every copa sudamericana, libertadores and copa america you decide to attent.
  15. JoeSoccerFan

    JoeSoccerFan Member+

    Aug 11, 2000
    Altidore and Donovan didn't go to college.
  16. Lensois

    Lensois Member

    May 19, 2004
    I don't have the proposal in front of me at the moment but from what I recall it would not necessarily allow current college players to play with, for instance, PDL teams that may pay what the NCAA would consider more than actual expenses. I believe the intent is primarily for foreign players who have to deal with a very different developmental structure than US kids and often don't have much knowlegdge of or control over playing alongside what the NCAA would deem professional players.

    I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that is the intent of the proposal.
  17. AguiluchoMerengue

    Oct 4, 2008
    South Carolina
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    i now that, and think about, if players made in mls and "academies" are struggling to make it in europe, how are these ncaa kids suppose to succed?

    of course we have dempsey, guzan and gooch but come on.

    the point is, college soccer players need to prepare themselves to play at the highest level, if not, why play college soccer then? bc is fun?
  18. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    Greg Berhalter - three seasons at North Carolina
    Carlos Bocanegra - three seasons at UCLA
    Paul Caligiuri - four seasons at UCLA
    Steve Cherundolo - two seasons at Portland
    Chad Deering - two seasons at Indiana
    Charlie Davies - two seasons (plus a redshirt year) at Boston College
    Clint Dempsey - three seasons at Furman
    Maurice Edu - three seasons at Maryland
    Benny Feilhaber - two seasons at UCLA
    Rob Friend - four seasons at UC Santa Barbara
    Cory Gibbs - four seasons at Brown
    John Harkes - three seasons at Virginia
    Frankie Hejduk - three seasons at UCLA
    Vedad Ibisevic - one seasons at Saint Louis
    Alexi Lalas - four seasons at Rutgers
    Eddie Lewis - four seasons at UCLA
    Clint Mathis - four seasons at South Carolina
    Brian McBride - four seasons at Saint Louis
    Joe-Max Moore - three seasons at UCLA
    Ryan Nelsen - four seasons at Stanford
    Oguchi Onyewu - two seasons at Clemson
    Claudio Reyna - three seasons at Virginia
    Tony Sanneh - four seasons at Wisconsin-Milwaukee
    Paul Stalteri - one season at Clemson
    Greg Vanney - four seasons at UCLA
    David Weir - four seasons at Evansville
    Eric Wynalda - three seasons at San Diego State

    All these guys had or are having long careers in Europe that included time playing for teams in the top flights of England, Italy, France, Germany, the Netherlands or Scotland. (I'm sure I've left some out.)

    Note that they are ALL field players. I haven't included the likes of Friedel, Keller, Hahnemann, Guzan, Sommer and Hislop who played goalkeeper in the top flights of Europe after NCAA careers.

    Nor did I count the myriad former college players who played in the second divisions of top European leagues or who played in smaller leagues like Belgium or Scandanavia.

    College soccer didn't keep these guys from having careers in Europe. Nor is it college soccer's purpose to do so.

    Fundamental change in American player development isn't gonna ever be driven by the NCAA. It's not the NCAA's job and their is nothing in it (ie no money) for the NCAA to do so.

    Change will have to be led by the pros and until that happens, the NCAA, with all its quirks and frustrations, is what we're gonna have to make do with.
  19. CodyJarrett

    CodyJarrett Member

    Dec 7, 2009
    Bloomington, IN
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Maybe it's the cultural value that Americans put on a university degree? I imagine that many players opting for the collegiate route recognize that the likelihood of playing at the next level is somewhat slim and, even they do get that opportunity, most are looking at the domestic option. It is no secret that professional soccer in the states is typically not the path to financial security. By going the college route, they get to pursue a degree and the theoretical earning potential that typically comes with it.

    So, if you ask the question through the perspective of player development, you're right - college soccer certainly is not the most logical choice. But if we look at it through the perspective of (often, not always) suburban parents from (often, not always) relatively well to do backgrounds who (often, not always) have had successful jobs/careers of their own who (often, not always) want the same for their kids, college might be the logical choice given parental influence.

    I mean, train with an MLS Club full time or play at and get a degree from a Duke, UCLA, UVA, Wake, Northwestern, etc. Given the perspective of many in the states, the college option makes a lot of sense.

    (This argument assumes a lot of stereotypes, which are seldom flattering or accurate. It's not my intent to piss anyone off and I apologize in advance if that was the effect.)
  20. AguiluchoMerengue

    Oct 4, 2008
    South Carolina
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    so you are saying ncaa soccer should stay the way it is?

    time outs, multiple subs... short season. kind of hard to live with that reality.
  21. Dsocc

    Dsocc Member

    Feb 13, 2002
    He's saying that whatever the NCAA does is not really relevant in the discussion of professional soccer. And it's not going to change much, if at all.

    There are over 600 NCAA D1, D2, & D3 teams. There are 16 MLS teams, with domestic players whose entire professional earning power is going to be surpassed by most college guys with a good degree within 6-7 years of graduation.

    There's simply too much job demand in the US for degreed college guys who played college soccer, and not anywhere near enough demand for non-degreed guys who might be able to play professional soccer.
  22. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    Then you're going to have a difficult life.

    Because college soccer ain't changing just to make you happy.
  23. AguiluchoMerengue

    Oct 4, 2008
    South Carolina
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    i guess we are talking of about 30 years of embarrasing world cups and copa americas.

    i should be happy about it.
  24. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    No, you shouldn't be happy at all about it.

    You just shouldn't expect college soccer to be the vehicle to change things with the national team.
  25. GauchoSoccerManiac

    Sep 10, 2005
    You are a very patient fellow.

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