ESPN - Good or Bad for Soccer, Part II

Re: ESPN2 Thursday Night MLS - Excellent Production

Their operators don't really know the game, and to the uneducated soccer seems very random, so that would be a tall order.
It's perfect for football where you can put it up and behind the QB, follow the snap, zoom to cover the pass or run, and then give it time to be reset between plays.
The fact that soccer never stops makes it a tough tool to use because you have to be lucky to be in the right place at the right time to catch the buildup at the perfect angle for coverage.

 

Re: ESPN2 Thursday Night MLS - Excellent Production

O'brien is unwatchable. I tried but eventually cut it off. intros where a B for effort. Well F for trying to clone the NFL with stupid players talking. Great picture better sound. Dave needs to go away though for me to watch it alot. He ignores the game. I think he thinks all that passing and link up play is boring.

 

Re: ESPN2 Thursday Night MLS - Excellent Production

or maybe he thinks it speaks for itself and the viewers can keep up with the action.

 

Re: Rob Stone - "We have to dumb down broadcasts"

Moved the crap about how "american sports are generally devoid of strategy and thinking" to the other sports forum. don't go down that road again or this thread will be closed.

 

Re: ESPN2 Thursday Night MLS - Excellent Production

Yeah, you can tell that the guys who are running the skycam are still getting their sea-legs. It was a bit jerky and the potential for it is not yet reached.

I realize it's an expensive piece of equipment, and ESPN will probably want to use it more simply b/c they're shelling out some money for it, but I think it's most useful for replays. I think they could get in nice and tight and get some great shots of the action, but since it would be so hit or miss in that regard, it should only be used for replays, not live action.

I really want ESPN to implement the HD technology that they use during NFL games, where it's shot at like 200 frames per second and you can see every little movement in ridiculous detail. That would be amazing on free kicks.

 

Re: ESPN2 Thursday Night MLS - Excellent Production

I watched last night's ESPN 2 Thursday Night MLS match.It was great to see football in HD.I wish FSC and GOLTV were in HD .

 

Re: ESPN2 Thursday Night MLS - Excellent Production

There was no skycam in Columbus.

Still haven't seen the "offside line". Unless Wynalda drawing something on the telestrator is what ESPN had in mind.

And I personally think the picture on HDNET is better than EPSN2HD.

Thx,

Jay!

 

Re: ESPN2 Thursday Night MLS - Excellent Production

well the picture on hdnet is also higher resolution. espn uses 720p (1280x720) and hdnet uses 1080i (1920x1080). 720p is generally better for motion, because it uses progressive frames instead of interlaced (interlaced means every other line is drawn each frame, like on frame 1 lines 2, 4, 6, 8, etc are drawn, and on frame 2, lines 1, 3, 5, 7, etc are drawn. in progressive all lines are drawn every frame lending itself better to fluid motion. most people aren't going to see the difference. 720p does have fewer pixels across though (1280 as opposed to 1920) so the added picture quality of 1080i often outweighs the flaws that intlerlaced frames have with motion. NBC and CBS are also 1080i. ABC and Fox are 720p. (as long as we're doing the lesson, standard definition channels are 480i, and ED, a marketing term, is a tv that can downconvert 720p and 1080i signals to 480p)

i saw them talk about the offside line in the pregame last thursday and they showed an example, but they never used it during the game, halftime, or during postgame. It is strange that they talk about it and showed an example, but haven't yet had used it, even when they had a few chances to showcase it. my theory is that they are having some problems with it. Kicktrax is ugly and pointless. a simple line would be better. stromotion wasn't bad, why didn't they keep that?

 

Re: Rob Stone - "We have to dumb down broadcasts"


ESPN needs to take their cue from how Fox and NBC positioned NASCAR in the early part of this decade. They were able to quadruple the NASCAR numbers with new viewers, without blatantly insulting the hardcore fans.

I understand it is a difficult balance, but ESPN could do a better job -- and start by telling the color analysts to shut up. They don't need to comment on every touch of the ball. I think the play-by-play guys at ESPN actually get a bad rap, since the approach of the color analysts’ is what differs so much from European coverage.

Rob Stone and Eric Wynalda should be studio guys anyway. Neither is strong in live coverage, and they are so predictable:
(1) Wynalda and Stone will overhype the US Internationals.
(2) Wynalda will nitpick every Foreign International excessively.
(3) They will have a 5-10 minute discussion on the US National Team and totally lose focus on the game.
(4) The majority of the coverage will be negative. Even a Columbus goal last week was characterized as "he almost missed that" rather than talking about the quality of the build-up or the finish.
(5) Although college soccer is irrelevant in this country, and completely irrelevant in the scope of world football, they will go out of their way to tell us the college the player went to, rather than their nationality or previous clubs. ESPN should look at what a colossal failure ESPN-U has been, and that should sum up the public's interest in college sports outside football and men’s basketball.

 

Re: ESPN2 Thursday Night MLS - Excellent Production

I want to say the cables come down after games... If a GK does the "long ball", wouldn't there be a chance the ball could hit a wire? Or do the wires somehow move to the far sides of the field when they're not being used? If i'm management, i'd want them out of sightlines if there's no sky cam for that game.

I also want to say that it was in Gillette Stadium during a Revs/Crew match that the sky cam was being installed for a NFL game within the next few days. Apparently there was a rule where if the ball hit the skycam, it would have been an automatic drop kick. So yeah, a few other stadiums do have this technology.

 

Re: Rob Stone - "We have to dumb down broadcasts"

I'd say I fall easily into the first paragraph of what I quoted from Quentin.

I have FSC and GolTV (as well as the Spanish package on Comcast, so Desportes and the various Spanish language channels from the Spanish pack). And I have ESPN2. I find that I am more likely to watch a match in Spanish (which I don't understand, bar a few words here and there such as most words for colors, some numbers, and a few soccer-related terms) than I am on ESPN2, at least for ESPN2's MLS coverage. I'll suffer through ESPN's US Nats matches, because I care more about the US Nats than the random MLS team, but the coverage is more or less the same for MLS and US Nats.

Now, it doesn't help that I live 3+ hours away from the closest MLS team (Chicago closest, then Colombus), so I don't really have any vested interest in any team there. I happened to start following European leagues (La Liga and English Premier) a couple years before following MLS, but I don't have any built up die hard allegiance to any team (though I have those I want to do well and those I want to do poorly, as well as those that I'm neutral on), and while I don't consider myself an expert, at all, on the nuances of the game, I do find myself becoming irritated at ESPN2's coverage of MLS and to some extent US Nats. Rob Stone in particular. I'm not a huge Dave O'Brien fan, but he's better than Rob Stone. That being said, last night watching NYRB-Dallas, I found that Dave wasn't as annoying with both Eric and Tommy in the booth.

In the past I've had the MLS Shootout package (or whatever it was called) twice. I think it was the 2002 and the 2003 season (may be off by a year there). But, somewhere around the introduction of Veronica Pacey (sp?), however hot she was, I began to see ESPN's broadcasts as kind of a joke. And even though last night wasn't bad, I think interviewing players who've just been subbed off, while the game is still in progress, is not a good idea. But then again I think the whole sideline reporter thing for NFL is kinda stupid, also.

So, with that being said, I kind of feel like I fit into the category of an established soccer fan who ESPN is doing nothing to attract to MLS. Jack Edwards, Rob Stone, Dave O'Brien. None of these guys are, really, very good soccer commentators. JP is probably the best one I've heard on that network (I'm probably forgetting someone).

But they have the same sort of style for their IRL coverage (seen as an ugly sister compared to NASCAR, with a much smaller audience, so they seem to bring in a new lead announcer each season who "teaches" the audience about the cars and the series, when most of those watching, I suspect, know more than he does, because they were fans before the first race of the season, unlike the new lead announcer). I can't say I like the 24/7 ticker running, either (nor do I like FSC's occasional ticker during matches, or the adds that show up every so often).

The one thing that I am grateful that ESPN does not have is Max Bretos. I will watch matches (Boca-River, for example) in Spanish (which again, I don't understand) on FSWE rather than in English on FSC when Max is covering them.

One thing I do agree with from the thread is that there's not a huge need to explain rules. If the viewer cares, they'll figure it out. If they don't care, you're not going to make them care. I figured out the basics of cricket one week (and haven't watched it since), and figured out the basics of Australian Rules Football in one game, because I was intrigued. I'd watch Aussie Rules again if FSC ever shows it again. But rugby...meh...I didn't really have the desire to figure that one (or is it two) out. Nor Gaelic Football (these are back when it was FSW and not FSC). And since there's so few rules (comparatively) in soccer, there's really not much that's hard to figure out. Tactics, on the otherhand, are a different matter.



Oh, and if anyone got this far, I put that second quote from Quentin in for Rangers00. Dude, please listen to that.

But in the long run, I'm just one potential viewer that catches the occasional MLS match (but...I am SURE to catch at least two EPL matches on FSC each week, and two more La Liga matches on GolTV each week). I do watch (or tape) every Champs League match on ESPN2, though. And I'm just anecdotal evidence for those that want it. I'm surely not the only one, but I wonder how many people are like me?

 

Re: ESPN2 Thursday Night MLS - Excellent Production

Update, no Skycam or offside line in NY/NJ.

Thx,

Jay!

 

ESPN could be doing more and simply chooses not to. Bad for the game. Plain and simple.

 

They choose to because there is no money in soccer in America and there will be none until today's current youth soccer players become adults with disposable income.

 

They hate soccer so much they put on a half hour pre-game show before today's Liverpool v Chelsea game, and will have one before AC Milan v Manchester United as well.

 

You're right. I hate being able to watch MLS, Champions League, World Cup, and US games. ******** that shit.

 

May I whine a bit about commentators who are stupid at math? (AC Milan-ManU R)

OK, so Milan are up 2-0 by halftime. Thereafter, the stupid pbp guy says time after time after time when Milan were attacking, will this one put away ManU? Will Milan book their ticket to Athens here?

Of course, with or without the 3rd goal, ManU still needed 2. (Remember, the first leg ended 3-2 ManU.) The only thing a 3rd ACM goal did was make it so if ManU got the 2 goals, they didn't win on aggregate, they forced extra time.

I don't know the pbp guy, but Seamus never corrected him.

Thanks for listening.

 

Re: May I whine a bit about commentators who are stupid at math? (AC Milan-ManU R)

He may have just meant that at 3-0 games are generally considered to be over whereas a 2-0 lead isn't really considered safe in soccer. He could also not know the away goals rule but he does call games for ESPN all the time so I would hope that by now he would've caught onto the aggregate score and away goals rule. His name is Adrian Healy.

 

Re: May I whine a bit about commentators who are stupid at math? (AC Milan-ManU R)

I have to say; unlikely as Man Utd looked at scoring any goals when it was 2-0, the third goal was just a psychological kick to the nuts.

Obviously nothing changed mathematically, but realistically it was much different.

One complaint that I did have about Healy and Malin (who I like more than Rae/Smyth just because of "Auld Onion Bag") was that they didn't realize that the scuffle between the teams near the end was the result of Man Utd not throwing in the ball to AC Milan, who had kicked it out for Kaka to get treatment. Rooney threw the ball in and they started an attack. Gattuso is tough, but he just didn't go off randomly.

 

Re: May I whine a bit about commentators who are stupid at math? (AC Milan-ManU R)

That was annoying, but it's because they were watching the game just like me or you, on TV (in a studio in Bristol, CT). ESPN is better at hiding the fact that their commentators aren't actually at the match, but in instances like today, it's glaringly obvious.

 

Re: May I whine a bit about commentators who are stupid at math? (AC Milan-ManU R)

Well, I knew what the fight was about. When Rooney threw it in, I thought "uh oh, Milan's going to be p!ssed..."

 

Re: May I whine a bit about commentators who are stupid at math? (AC Milan-ManU R)

Actually, Adrian Healy did say at some point in the second half that the 3rd goal would ensure that worst case scenario for Milan was extra time, and then added something to the effect that that scenario would be unlikely given the play of both sides. I can't remember when Healy said this so you might have missed it and he may only said it once and then followed again and again with the need for a third goal (although I don't really remember hearing him say this much so it's really just something I tuned out and you tuned in).

On the whole, I think Healy is only behind Derek Rae in terms of US-based broadcasters of futbol. He does his homework, so to speak, and generally calls a good game. Take care.

 

And airing World Cup/MLS matches in HD, how dare they?!?

 

Re: May I whine a bit about commentators who are stupid at math? (AC Milan-ManU R)

I actually recall the ESPN commentators making that distinction in saying the Man U still needed 2 goals but now to reach extra time...not win in regular time. Much ado about nothing.

 

CL Ad On ESPN Atlantic

I was wondering if anyone else has seen the ESPN ad for the CL Final airing on their international networks. Not the one with the coaches, the one with the highlights of the last 10 finals set to dramatic music.

I really enjoyed it, and was wondering if anyone has seen it on YouTube or the like. Thanks.