Espn and The Euros

Well, maybe he thought that he could replace training with EPO. But if you want to win, of course you still have to exercise. But I don't want to argue about that. My only point was that we cannot know if Lance would have been as dominant if there were no drugs.

Of course, everybody was cheating, so it was fair in a twisted kind of way. But it's still not the way it should be, because success depends as much on skill as it does on technology (drugs). Kinda like Formula 1 where the most talented driver might never win anything due to the bad car he's driving. I don't have a problem with that in racing, because the technology is part of what makes it fascinating. But in other sports, that shouldn't be a factor.

 

I guess you're right...maybe I'm deluding myself

I was just thinking that in sports like football, drugs wouldn't make that much of a difference - you know, being a team sport and all. Also, it doesn't really matter if you run the 100m in 11 sec or in 11.5 sec. It's not about absolute numbers but about relative skills. Hence players would think twice about using drugs, not only because they could get caught (because with the right doctors, they wouldn't) but because they'd be gambling with their health.

But I guess in today's fast paced game, steroids really can make a difference and are hence more tempting...

 

Sometimes I think maybe we should just accept and embrace these new circumstances. I look at my favorite sport baseball where stats and record are held at a much higher level than with any other sport but steroids has taken the magic and aweness out of them, but the game is still the same as it was before. I'll still watch these individual sports, I'm just not going to be impressed when they break world records.

 

And without the cheating, a less powerful Lance would have met up with a less powerful Ulrich, who still carried a jelly belly up the first mountain stage due to too many nights out on the Euro club circuit even with the help of performance enhancers. I don't deny your premise that drugs by everyone doesn't necessarily level the playing field. However, I have heard way to many German voices lay blame at the feet of the performance enhancement for Ulrich's failures when 90% of it should be laid directly at the feet of Mr. Jan Ulrich. This is a guy who admitted he didn't really love cycling anymore and was burned out. He didn't train (with or without drugs) at a level that 90 percent of the other tour riders did. And it showed. He turned up to the start of tours fat. Not fat for a world class athlete, but fat even for your typical average joe who works out regularly. I don't by the he could replace training with EPO BS. Everyone else was training, and everyone was probably using EPO. Drugs are called "performance enhancers" for a reason. They don't replace training/performance. The only enhance it.

If Ulrich actually cared and bothered to train at an even average level, he could have won 3 of Armstrong's titles. But he didn't. And it had nothing to do with who "responded to drugs better" and everything to do with commitment--and staying away from nightclubs when he should have been planning his morning ride.

 

Do you guys think we slightly hijacked this thread?????

 

Bigsoccer rule 321: Any thread that goes over a 100 posts must go off topic for at least one page, this will also apply for every additional hundred posts.

 

If I'm a marginal big league prospect, and by taking steroids I can hit 30 homers and knock in 100 RBI's and thereby get a multimillion $$$ contract, you bet I'd be tempted to take steroids.

I know myself well enough that I probably would

 

Re: Tommy Smythe

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Five days later, bemused fans watched as Slovakian referee Lubos Michel showed a red card for a second offence to Russian defender Denis Kolodin in their quarter-final with Netherlands only to withdraw it after talking to his linesman.

There was some speculation the second booking had been rescinded due to the ball having gone out of play, although this should in fact have no bearing on the sanctioning of a player.

UEFA later said the referee had simply been convinced by his assistant that Kolodin's tackle did not warrant a booking.
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So who was the expert Smyth or all you know it alls.

 

For all the griping about Smyth, I actually think he has been vastly improved during Euro2008. Much less use of his usual cliches (" punches the 'ol onion bag! "). A vast improvement to his commentating during the last champions league season.

Now this may be swearing in the church, but my most hated commentator during Euro2008 is Andy Gray... Yikes has that man been annoying - most of it due to his
A) diatribes about the pros/cons of modern football, but mostly...
B) his constant bitching of the Refereeing standard.
EVERY SINGLE game he bitches about either the 'ref blowing apart the flow of the game, OR that he lets everything go. ("How is that not a foul" - try a drinking game with his every use of that phrase if you dare) Just let it go, man! Plus his opinion of whether or not a foul is really a foul is usually proved false with the first replay. Geez...

No I'll take Smyth over Gray anytime...

 

^agreed^

I've never heard any commentator in any sport complain as much as Andy Gray. As a result, any games covered by Andy Gray are just irritating. "This is the problem with modern football.....etc...etc."

Tommy Smyth is bearable and at times very funny, he just helps make the game more enjoyable. Anyone here heard GolTV's Ray Hudson, now he is the hybrid of Andy Gray and Tommy Smyth, a perfect hyrbid of rational comedic genius.

Roy Hudson I miss you already!

 

Ray Hudson is funny as hell, but he doesn't offer that much tactical insight.

Tommy Smyth seems very reluctant to admit when he has made a mistake in a comment. He wouldn't even retract his assertion that Panucci hadn't really fouled the Romanian guy for the penalty in that match, even after a replay showed him pulling the Romanian guy to the ground with a choke hold. That kind of gets on my nerves.

I find Gray much better, but I can tolerate Smyth as well.

 

That's all!

 

Re: Tommy Smythe

So a referee standing twenty yards away takes the advice of a linesman standing seventy yards away and UEFA backs him up! Does that make sense to you? Could it be that the UEFA spokesman (a spokeman for an organization which has never been known to have irrationally backed officials, be they referees, administrators, etc. even when they are obviously wrong-please excuse the sarcasm) chose once again to back the official? I am not a "know all" but I do know that Tommy Smyth is a poor excuse for an announcer. When Ballack scored against Portugal, he described Ballack's push of the defender as a "nudge" when earlier he had criticized a Portugese defender for the same thing! It is that lack of consistency, understanding of the game, and pig headedness when he has been proved to be wrong by replays which adds to his overall ineptness.

 

I don't have a problem with Andy Gray complaining about the officiating and the negative tactics by players. I think it's entirely warranted and kudos to him for stepping up rather than going with the flow.

These "nonsense" acts, as he calls them, need to be complained about more because its one of the only ways to bring the attention that results in changes being made.

If more soccer writers and broadcasters were vocal about these things we'd have a period of irritation, sure, but it would speed up the pressure on the empty suits at FIFA and UEFA and COMNEBOL, etc. to finally get their heads out of the sands and do something.

Last year (IIRC), the Scottish FA attempted to institute post-match reviews and bans. FIFA (or was it UEFA?.....can't quite recall ) stepped in and forced them to drop the idea because they want to retain the absurd "authority" of refereeing decisions. So we continue to have this diving and cheating garbage.

Thank you for loving the sport enough to try to save it from these clowns, Andy Gray.

 

I agree with you about more people in the media should voice their opinions about this. But watching this Euro, it seems to me Andy Gray complaint stop at the referees. He rarely criticize the players diving or acting like they just got shot when they've just been touched by a defender. His motto seem to be if a player goes down the referee should call foul, regardless whether the player is faking or not. He was definitely annoying in the Italy-Spain game because that referee wasn't buying all the divings and antics yet Andy Gray kept complaining about his non-calls.

 

Re: Tommy Smythe

Thanks Mr Gray we have heard you use that angle a couple of times. Like on the Dutch goal ,Henry case. We get the story you cant not be wrong.

 

A note to the European Broadcasting Union.....
ever hear of lightning rods?....invented by one Benjamin Franklin... or is this another example of staggering third world ineptitude. maybe I ought to eat my veggies tonight..there are poor starving people in Europe, you know....

 

Err, get out of NY much???
Since when is Switzerland a 3rd world country???!!!
Their cities are probably a lot better run then the big apple.

Power failures can happen to any TV network, no matter how many backup generators they have in place

 

apparently my sarcasm was lost on you...
(and yes, I know that Jane Jacobs, god rest her soul, lived in Tronna)
we were informed that 3 lightning strikes affected the worldwide feed......
a lightning rod would have channeled the energy away..that's why very few home fires caused by lightning strikes....

 

Yes, it's a well known fact that houses are frequently burning down in Switzerland due to the lack of lightening rods

 

There will be two replays of the Germany-Turkey game with no technical difficulties. Tonight on ESPN Classic at 9:00 pm ET to 11:30 pm ET and Thursday morning on ESPN2 from 1:30 am ET to 4:00 am ET. Note: The ESPN Classic showing may only go to 11:00 pm ET however if you have to set your recorder ahead, set it to 11:30 pm ET, just in case they decided to show the complete coverage like they are doing on ESPN2.

LB - who has the DVD-R already sent for the ESPN2 showing.

 

IMHO.

the tommy Smyth and Derek Rae commentary is horrible. They dont call the game. They spend the entire 90 minutes talking about back subplots about each player and giving unfunny jabs to each other.

The other duo with the funny scottish color commentary guy is much better. They actually actually call the game and give great analysis.

For you spanish speakers, i hope you agree, the espndeportes duo is the best. The lead commentator calls the game as it is being played, the entire 90 min. And Mario Kempes is in a class of his own. Im not sure becuz he has that WCchampionship to be a forever ego booster or its becuz he is just Argentinan. Who Cares. He does a fabulous job doing the color analysis.

I am watching the semifinal and final up here in toronto where they have TSN instead of ESPN and the commentators are way way better than Tommy and Derek.

I think espn likes Tommy and Derek becuz they have that captivating voice.

 

I really can't say much about the ESPN coverage, but here's an interesting article about this:

http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/208397