Escape Goat (China's democracy and the Communist government)

jamisont · Sep 20, 2002

Originally posted by Escape Goat
jamisont, you are doing good. I was once liked you when I was your age. It is hard to be 13 year old. Once you finsihed Junior High., you will learn more about the world and your simplistic view of the world will be gone. I understand how hard to agrue with adults who are experts on the topics while you knew next to nothing. My suggestions..... read more books on China..... learn Mandarin..... stay in China for 2 weeks..... then, you will understand what I am thinking of your opinion. And please don't be embarrassed about that.
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lol here we go again, jumping into quick conclusion based on nothing.
just write stuffs that you know only, dont act like you know everything about anything, typical self centered person.

well your suggestion might be right.
Person who talks about things should know about what he's talking about.
but what makes you think I dont?
this is what you do all the time, You mix up your stupid opion with just simple common truth, so you can hide your stupidity.

you cant allow 2nd opinion just like your pathetic government huh.
just like kids try to act like their parents.

Ive stayed in China much longer than 2 weeks, thank u. (mostly in Manchu area)
I can speak mandrain ,not fluent but barely enough to express myself.

I visited Manchu (Harbin) cuz thats the place where my grandfather lived more than 20 years and got married.
he used to tell me how Manchu was like when I was a little kid. (if he's still alive, he would be way over 90yrs old)

I can tell you a little secret on history.
When Japan lost world war II, all japanese soldiers and civilians could leave Manchu without a scratch cuz they were protected by the law.
so manchurians and chinese put their anger toward koreans instead cuz Koreans were treated differently by Japanese.
this is all you can get in any history books, and thats what historians are saying.

why koreans were treated differently? well historians are saying that Koreans could speak Japanese so Japanese treated them differently.. thats bullcrap.

If they can check background of those korean farmers in Manchu, they would realize they are from all same province in Korea (Gyongsangdo-southern eastern part of korea-thats where my grandfather was from)
isnt it weird? korean farmers in Manchu are from a far off place in Korea.

this is what happened.
My grandfather's parent's land were all seized by Japanese government when they reformed land treaty in Korea.
What japanese government did was, forcing all land owners to register their land, so they could manage easily.
the problem was that if land owners couldnt register in time, all those land were labeled as ownerless land and became government land.
so lot of farmers were enslaved or had to leave their land. (basically 70% of all farmers became tenant farmers cuz they didnt even know they had to register their land, most of them couldnt even read or write)
thats when Japanese farmers migrated to Korea cuz they were lot of empty farm land in paper.

my grandfather went to Osaka, Japan to learn tayloring, he worked for around 10 yrs without a pay (it was japanese custom, you work for free to learn technique, and the owner will open a shop for their worker when he's ready to leave or take over the shop when owner retires)

He tried to open a shop in Seoul but not many people were wearing suits at that time, and situation in Korea wasnt any better than when he left.
so he went to Harbin instead(heavily russian influenced city, and more modernized city)

business got better, so he could open up several tayloring shops over Manchu.
he made lot of money, and got married there (his wife was from northern part of Korea)
He invested all his money on buying land so he could begin farming.
he told me the incredible stories like how they could build a huge dam across river, etc.
during winter, river freezes, and all they had to do was making a huge wall on top of ice across the river.
cuz of its weight, at the bottom of wall, it will creat heat (high pressure creats heat) and it will melt ice little by little and whole wall will go down right into bottom.

so he could begin farming after he set up a dam in river, and he brought korean farmers from where he grew up (gyongsangdo)
there were lot of koreans in Manchu but most farmers were from southern east part of Korea.

anyway he had to sell his land to japanese company (half forced due to debts), and he made an agreement with them.
since he brought those korean farmers (some of them were his neighbors in korea) he has responsibility of them, and he would not sell the land unless they take care of them good.
so korean farmers got different contract than others.

..
You havent answered any of my Q or proved any my opinions wrong yet.
if you want to call someone stupid and dont know ************, then prove it wrong.
Its that simple.

Premium Hamatachi redded · Sep 20, 2002

i believe closing thread is not enough anymore.

minorthreat · Sep 20, 2002

Originally posted by Premium Hamatachi
i believe closing thread is not enough anymore.
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Madre de Dios - nothing like the public airing of dirty laundry, although I sort of wonder what he could possibly be hoping to accomplish.

Ludahai · Sep 20, 2002

Re: Escape Goat

Originally posted by jamisont

lol here we go again, jumping into quick conclusion based on nothing.
just write stuffs that you know only, dont act like you know everything about anything, typical self centered person.

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Gee, some people can't take a hint, can they? And what, if anything, did your verbose speal have to do with democracy in China anyway?

jamisont · Sep 20, 2002

Re: Re: Escape Goat

Originally posted by Ludahai

Gee, some people can't take a hint, can they? And what, if anything, did your verbose speal have to do with democracy in China anyway?
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I wasnt the one who brought up this communism/democracy in china.
actually it was you insisting we were brainwashed by western media to think that china is still communist.
before that we were just talking about korean worldcup matches, and pathetic CCTV.

dark knight · Sep 20, 2002

Mods - if you don't want to leave this discussion here, why not move this to politics instead of closing?

Ludahai - When I was in Beijing (98), I was surprised how little young people knew about Tiananmen. There was an editorial today in the NYTimes about the Chinese government censoring google. It's fine to talk about democratic reforms, but when the government wields this kind of power, it's hard to have much faith in anything they do.

I'm not 13 and I've lived in Beijing and studied Mandarin, but I still have a lot of doubts about the Chinese government.

jamisont · Sep 20, 2002

Originally posted by dark knight
Mods - if you don't want to leave this discussion here, why not move this to politics instead of closing?

Ludahai - When I was in Beijing (98), I was surprised how little young people knew about Tiananmen. There was an editorial today in the NYTimes about the Chinese government censoring google. It's fine to talk about democratic reforms, but when the government wields this kind of power, it's hard to have much faith in anything they do.

I'm not 13 and I've lived in Beijing and studied Mandarin, but I still have a lot of doubts about the Chinese government.
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well Tianmen incident never happened according to chinese government, it was all made up by western media and defected chinese student leaders.
no matter what they say, they wont change my mind cuz I saw their tank ran over several chinese students in TV.

dont midjudge me im not against China and chinese, im against their pathetic communist government and their puppet CCTV.

dark knight · Sep 20, 2002

Originally posted by dark knight
Mods - if you don't want to leave this discussion here, why not move this to politics instead of closing?

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Oh yeah, and don't forget to rename it.

kc123 · Sep 20, 2002

Re: Re: Re: Escape Goat

Originally posted by jamisont

I wasnt the one who brought up this communism/democracy in china.
actually it was you insisting we were brainwashed by western media to think that china is still communist.
before that we were just talking about korean worldcup matches, and pathetic CCTV.
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Sure you were the guy who brought up this communism shi+ about China. We were just talking about the Korean WC matches. All the sudden you brought up the CCTV shi+, you called them the stinking communist. CCTV isn't pathetic, they didn't say any bad things about the Korean NT.
But how about the Korean media? I still remember their little comment about the Chinese aboard players. The Chinese players showed the "gap" huh?Looks like they love the Chinese players to death. don't they?

kc123 · Sep 20, 2002

Originally posted by dark knight

Oh yeah, and don't forget to rename it.
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OH yeah, Mods, move this thread to the politics forum and remember to rename it, so they can get more people to attack the Chinese.

Iranian-Striker · Sep 20, 2002

I like CCTV news lady.

kc123 · Sep 20, 2002

Originally posted by Iranian-Striker
I like CCTV news lady.
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Which one?

Chachi King · Sep 21, 2002

China is the biggest threat to democracy.

The worst mistake for the world to make is to let China get too rich and strong to care about world opinion. Of course, many people say the same thing about the United States, but individual Americans DO have extensive rights that the Chinese can't even dream of. The American public will hold its government responsible if it does something heinous in say Vietnam (like it did). That won't work in China. Something should be done before China gets too rich.

Capitalism is NOT democracy. Don't let China become the first communist capitalist country.

Hyok · Sep 21, 2002

Originally posted by Chachi King
China is the biggest threat to democracy.

Capitalism is NOT democracy. Don't let China become the first communist capitalist country.
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Too late for that ;-) South Korea was a capitalistic dictatorship for a long time. Is it any better than a communist capitalist?

Excape Goat · Sep 21, 2002

darkknight..... I do not care whether the people do not know about Tiananmen. For most Chinese, the sad episode of Chinese history is over. We hate western media of using this against us(the entire Chinese nation)years after years. You are only making us the people have to pay for the crime of a few people 13 years ago. I hate even more when people tell me that they do not hate the Chinese people when all they did was gone after us. And one more thing..... I worked for a year for Amnesty International. I mentioned this to you years ago. And I do not think China has a big human rights problem. I have seen both US Congress, UN and Amnesty International documents suggested that the human rights problem ranked better than Asian countries such as India. But yet it is frustrating that all we heard from the western media that China has a human right problem.

As for Western government censoring google, I had no prove since I had not logged into my com[puter in China for awhile. Hobestly, I do not believe it since I had been reading similiar reports about China. Ninety-Nine percentage of time has been proved to false report. I read so many reports on the Chinese government banning this and that.... if you went to China, they are not banned or as common as StarBucks in Seattle. I lost faith years ago.

I will PM you later.....

Chachi King · Sep 21, 2002

Originally posted by Hyok

Too late for that ;-) South Korea was a capitalistic dictatorship for a long time. Is it any better than a communist capitalist?
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Not really, but South Korea wasn't the 800 pound gorilla China will become. Remember the United States played a huge role in prodding Korea towards democracy. Who's going to do that for China.

Excape Goat · Sep 21, 2002

Re: Re: Re: Escape Goat

Originally posted by jamisont

I wasnt the one who brought up this communism/democracy in china.
actually it was you insisting we were brainwashed by western media to think that china is still communist.
before that we were just talking about korean worldcup matches, and pathetic CCTV.
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You were the one who started it..... *********************.

Excape Goat · Sep 21, 2002

To the moderators here,

Once upon a time, I was the only poster at Asian forum. I would start a thread.... no one will come here for days. I posted live updates of the Asian Cup and only one or two people would come in. Then, the forum started to expand. We had a very good time. When Huss asked for moderators, I considered it unnecessary as we were all friends. The good old days have been gone. Some of the old-timers are gone. Korean_fighting, jamisont and Chachi_King are here to make wars. The Asian forum has now became one of the worst place on Bigsoccer. I am sick of all those ************ing comments made here. I am sad to see it the way it is..... I have complained to you about the situation and nothing was done. I could not keep my silence anymore.

You can give me a card if you liked. This thread will not be deleted. I will continue to swear.... because this place has been out of control. I am extremely angry with some of the comments made by Korean_fighting, jamisont and Chachi_King in various posts. Soccer cannot be discussed here anymore. And don't give me the *************** jamisont did not start this.........

Premium Hamatachi redded · Sep 21, 2002

you reminded me of good old days escape. geez, how many red card have i recieved since then? but yeah, i liked that time. i replied your pm already btw. don't worry, nobody's gonna red card you for sure.

Korean Football · Sep 21, 2002

Originally posted by dark knight
Mods - if you don't want to leave this discussion here, why not move this to politics instead of closing?

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good point.

Korean Football · Sep 21, 2002

thread moved to the politics forum.

Korean Football · Sep 21, 2002

Originally posted by Excape Goat
To the moderators here,

You can give me a card if you liked.
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why would I?

Ludahai · Sep 21, 2002

Re: Re: Re: Escape Goat

Originally posted by jamisont

I wasnt the one who brought up this communism/democracy in china.
actually it was you insisting we were brainwashed by western media to think that china is still communist.
before that we were just talking about korean worldcup matches, and pathetic CCTV.
Click to expand...

It was you who mentioned the Commies at CCTV first, not I.

Ludahai · Sep 21, 2002

Originally posted by dark knight
Mods - if you don't want to leave this discussion here, why not move this to politics instead of closing?

Ludahai - When I was in Beijing (98), I was surprised how little young people knew about Tiananmen. There was an editorial today in the NYTimes about the Chinese government censoring google. It's fine to talk about democratic reforms, but when the government wields this kind of power, it's hard to have much faith in anything they do.

I'm not 13 and I've lived in Beijing and studied Mandarin, but I still have a lot of doubts about the Chinese government.
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I didn't say you or anyone was 13. I lived in China for a while as well, and have visited Beijing on several occasions. Beijing is a huge city. I attribute the fact that not so many people remember about it is because even though it happened in their city, it wasn't that important to them. They had much more to worry about than demostrations by some youth at Tian'anmen. Of course in the weeks that followed, it became more than that, but more to the outside world, and not to the masses in China.

As for the censoring of google, according to reports, it is to try to keep porn out of the country. Porn of any kind is illegal in China. Granted, it is a lost cause, but if that is really the reason, why criticize it?

Ludahai · Sep 21, 2002

Originally posted by Chachi King
Capitalism is NOT democracy. Don't let China become the first communist capitalist country. [/B]
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Communism is an economic system, not a political one.

Your entire post smacks of ignorance. China is opening up and will continue to open up. It is becoming more democratic even if the outside world refuses to see it. There are local elections all over China today, and it is only a matter of time before it spreads to the provincial level and eventually to the national level.