Eric Wynalda's "Howard Beale moment": FSC employees rant against MLS at the NSCAA Convention

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by xbhaskarx, Jan 13, 2012.

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  1. SYoshonis

    SYoshonis Member+

    Jun 8, 2000
    Manistee, Michigan
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To tell you the truth, I don't think that MLS can EVER capture these fans, once they've jumped on the bandwagon of some EPL team. Remember, the vast majority of them are fans of the bigger clubs, the Mans, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal primarily. In order to duplicate the TV experience (which is what we're talking about), MLS teams would have to have the same sort of talent that those EPL clubs have. That would require an investment that MLS simply can't afford.

    Also, the EPL teams have a major advantage in the cachet of history and tradition which MLS can approach only with lots and lots of time. The EPL has a lot to offer the eyeball fan with which MLS simply can't compete.

    Finally, most of those fans have developed a team loyalty that would be difficult to break, even if everything else were equal.

    No, I believe that the only way to capitalize on EPL eyeball fans is to make them into MLS fanny fans. The only things that MLS can offer American fans that the EPL cannot is a live soccer experience, and a local team to root for. If that isn't enough, I'm not sure that MLS can do anything about it.
     
  2. Jossed

    Jossed Member+

    Apr 23, 2011
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    I doubt there are really many hardcore EPL fans in the United States for that to be even worthwhile. We are still talking about a tiny niche. Now the FMF is a different story. MLS has to compete with them.

    Most MLS fans also root for foreign clubs. Mostly EPL clubs. I don't think there are that many American soccer fans who can ignore MLS. Even the American Eurosnob, getting up at odds hours to watch the EPL, still seems to know enough about MLS to bash it on forums and twitter. Those American fans still follow MLS, even if they don't claim to, because there is still a part of them that wants American soccer to be accepted and covered. And they know soccer will only truly have made it here when we have a top flight league. The EPL ain't ours. So they can be easily converted to MLS fans as the league grows.
     
  3. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When the guy with a great weed connection moves, his customers have to buy their weed from SOMEwhere, even if it's crappy weed.

    That's MLS from mid-May to mid-August.

    And let's face it, if Abramovich decides he can't compete with Man City in terms of subsidizing his team, if Arsenal continues to insist on being so damn frugal, Chelsea and Arsenal glory hunters might be attracted to a league with parity.

    I don't know the overlap between the people who watch the Prem on ESPN and the people who watch MLS on ESPN. But given MLS' numbers, just picking up 25,000 pairs of eyeballs helps. The idea isn't to convert ALL of them, just some of them.
     
  4. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Now I know the Canadian teams are bad but calling it a parody is going a bit far, no? :D
     
  5. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There was an episode of All in the Family* where Archie Bunker was meeting Sammy Davis Jr. and he kept telling everyone not to talk about Davis' glass eye. Of course, he was the one who made a reference to it.

    I was thinking, superdave, people bleep this up all the time, make sure you write parity not parody, parity not parody, parity not parody.

    Then I got it wrong. Yikes.

    *Yes, I'm old. Now you whippersnappers get off my Internet.
     
  6. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Silver Spring, MD
    At least, once we're talking about the fans that consider television to be a decent substitute for the live product, this puts MLS at a severe disadvantage to those leagues that put on a better TV show. MLS has built a fanbase on the proposition that TV is not a substitute for the live experience, and reducing the live experience for the sake of TV now strikes as a very bad plan.
     
  7. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well said.
     
  8. SYoshonis

    SYoshonis Member+

    Jun 8, 2000
    Manistee, Michigan
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to superdave again.
     
  9. mbar

    mbar Member+

    Apr 30, 1999
    Los Angeles, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I just want to thank this thread for getting me through my work monday.
     
  10. monster

    monster Member

    Oct 19, 1999
    Hanover, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    His Twitter feed is like a wayback machine to this site circa 2002 or 2003.
     
  11. monster

    monster Member

    Oct 19, 1999
    Hanover, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Eric got turned down for coaching jobs, that's what's wrong with it.
     
  12. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Phewww! Wynalda11 is back on twitter. My quest for wisdom and knowledge is back on track Oh Great #11!
     
  13. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Amazing that after quitting Twitter he actually managed to stay off Twitter for 15 hours... I'm sure he was sleeping for a lot of that time but still a valiant effort.

    [​IMG]

    Hopefully this experience has humbled him...
    Well maybe he will be more careful and not make simple factual errors...
     
  14. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wynalda's speech
    Wynalda on Twitter
    Wynalda's speech
    Wynalda on Twitter
    How can anyone take this guy seriously when he is just saying random shit?
     
  15. Arisrules

    Arisrules Member

    Feb 19, 2000
    Washington, DC
    Personally, I feel there are two reasons to move from summer games to a similar schedule as that found in western europe in the big leagues (and I agree with the poster who talked about that there is no such thing as an international schedule or whatever the term is):

    i) it's just too hot and this has negative ramifications for the level of play. I'm sorry, but I've been to some new york games where I was sweating my ass off. I can only imagine what it would be like playing 90 minutes in that type of climate, and running several miles. It almost always results in poor soccer. Others will retort that the same is true in the cold. If there is four feet of snow, yes. But, I think running in colder months is much easier on the body, than trying to do the same on a sunny afternoon in Frisco.

    ii) If I'm a player I want to move to the same schedule as western europe, to allow me a better opportunity to join bigger teams. I think this makes sense both from a players, but also a team's perspective. How many times do we see players drop in over the summer, completely disrupting the squad, and teams making adjustments on the fly. I just consider this one reason why MLS is still amateur at times.

    Having said that, there are entrenched interests in keeping the schedule as is. I get that. In my view though, the historical intransigence to adjusting the schedule in relation to the FIFA international dates was comical. playing during the world cup? Comical. At a minimum, we should not be playing on those dates. Even if just one player is called up, it is unfair to that team as it alters the competitive balance. To me it undermines the importance of the individual games.

    As for Wynalda, I'm not really following what he wants. The problem seems to me that his sarcastic and militant tone really don't allow for others to partake in a serious discussion. Yet, it's probably good that there is somebody like him willing to mouth off. MLS works in ponderous ways at times (look at the convoluted allocation process, and how inane its transformatoin has been over the years). Sometimes you need somebody to rock the boat, even if Wynalda is a bit of a ponce. I will say this though: the WC '94 alumni are to the man, a joke. The only one who really hasn't embarrassed himself that much is Tab Ramos. The rest are blowhards, and complete losers (particularly this one ginger).
     
  16. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So to move to a winter schedule MLS would also have to shut down during the African Cup of Nations? Because, as you said:

    Kind of harsh on Dooley, Stewart, Friedel, and Reyna there.
     
  17. Jamooky

    Jamooky Member+

    Mar 24, 2006
    Cleveland, OH USA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Damn, Aris, what did Cle Kooiman ever do to you?
     
  18. voros

    voros Member

    Jun 7, 2002
    Parts Unknown
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But "owners best interests" is not a static thing. It depends largely on the behavior of fans, players and the media.

    If fans treat what the owners do as a fait accompli and live with it, they are effectively doing exactly what I said: equating the owners' interests with their own. Abandoning pro/rel would be just as good for the 20 ownership groups currently in the prem _in isolation._ But when factoring in the revolt they'd face from the football community if they tried, it's an obvious non-starter.

    You may call "bullshit" but if you're suggestion means fans should simply just roll over for ownership just because "they're gonna do what they're gonna do," you're argument becomes little more than semantics. The end result is precisely the same.
     
  19. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Africa_Cup_of_Nations
    Dates January 21 – February 12

    If those dates are typical, then even that wackily scheduled international competition would/could be avoided by a long winter (mid-season) break in the hypothetical MLS of the future in which the league had a summer off-season.
     
  20. SYoshonis

    SYoshonis Member+

    Jun 8, 2000
    Manistee, Michigan
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well then, you go right ahead and try to spin pissing into the wind as a virtue. I just think it's stupid, but you get as wet as you like.
     
  21. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So to avoid the African Cup of Nations and the Asian Cup MLS would have to take off all of January and half of February (approx). They would have to take June and July off to avoid the Euros, OFC Nations Cup, the Gold Cup, and the Copa, not to mention the World Cup. That's about 3.5 months off.

    Right now MLS takes December, January, February, and the first 10 days of March off. Less than 3.5 months.

    So this idea, at best, would keep the season the same length and it has a very good chance of actually shortening the season. And that assumes the teams play all the way up to New Year's, which isn't the smartest idea in a majority of MLS markets.
     
  22. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's in the interests of the fans if "the fans" are fans of one of the 19 MLS teams and not fans of one of the non-MLS teams. As a much much higher percentage of soccer fans are here in the US than in countries like England and Germany. How many MLS teams have finished in the bottom two at some point? Imagine a league without New York or LA or DC in MLS... where we had the Rochester Rhinos instead.

    Looking at the bottom two teams over the last five years:
    2007: Toronto and RSL gone... oh well all those enthusiastic fans in nice new stadiums will surely stick around for second division soccer, right? Does Toronto spend $20 million on an academy if this happens? RSL in Arizona?
    2008: LA Galaxy gone... what happens to Beckham and Donovan? (also SJ)
    2009: Bye bye New York, that's right we no longer have a team in the NYC area... will Henry sign with a second division team?
    2010: DCU one of the most successful franchises in league history, gone because of one bad year. Chivas gone... if the Galaxy are not back after just one year in the second division, is there any team left in LA?
    2011: Sorry Vancouver we know you have a new stadium and high attendance but you're out. (also Revs)
    etc.

    And you may say chances are they would climb back into the first division eventually but look at Leeds United. It's not a huge deal if there is no first division team in Berlin, that's not the case in MLS... how will sponsors and television partners feel if there is no team in LA or NY?

    Pro/rel might work when there are 50-60 professional soccer teams in US/Canada with their own stadiums and loyal fan bases, until then it's ridiculous to support it for a new league that's losing money, unless you're one of the few fans who roots for Orlando City. How many professional level soccer stadiums are there in London? A dozen? How many in NY and LA?

    I'll take this "NFL-driven mentality" league (as Wynalda called it) where every team has a shot to win or finish at the bottom (what if the Colts got relegated to the XFL this year?) over a pro/rel league dominated by a big four or two...
     
  23. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought I heard him mumbling "gotta see Judge Wapner, gotta see Wapner" in the corner but that implies he's actually as smart as Rain Man
     
  24. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wouldn't it just be easier to not play afternoon games in Frisco and Houston?

    (Never mind that there won't be any afternoon games in Frisco this season after the opener in March.)
     
  25. SYoshonis

    SYoshonis Member+

    Jun 8, 2000
    Manistee, Michigan
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wait, wait. So you're saying that the Germans DIDN'T bomb Pearl Harbor?
     

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