Eric Wynalda's "Howard Beale moment": FSC employees rant against MLS at the NSCAA Convention

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by xbhaskarx, Jan 13, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. monster

    monster Member

    Oct 19, 1999
    Hanover, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You trust these people waaaaay more than I do. ;)
     
  2. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    I'm a real American. {audience claps}

    (or I'm just ok with taking the longer-term view of the process.)
     
  3. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not necessarily, I would argue.
     
  4. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    not necessarily, sure.

    but overall or on the whole? yes.

    for the business of MLS, it helps to have "more" people (even the "crazy" or misinformed ones, too) talking about and interested in MLS items. Will Kuhns (rightly so, imo) was happy to invite Wynalda to an open/shared forum with Nelson Rodriquez and/or Don Garber. and it would be great for the league if that were to actually happen. But given that Wynalda now works for a non-SUM partner, we might not get to witness such a meeting of the minds.
     
  5. monster

    monster Member

    Oct 19, 1999
    Hanover, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm cool with a long-term view. In fact, I like how the league is pushing the limits of the calendar a little bit more each year. But I just don't think Eric Wynalda is a good role model to get people into this debate. In my view, people already know his particular brand of bullshit and discount him or we run the risk of people coming into the discussion with an incredibly skewed and negative view to what is really happening around the league. And if they believe him on those things and they buy his line that he's right and everyone else is wrong, how open will they be to the nuances that actually surround these discussions.

    I'm generally pretty optimistic, but not when it comes to the people who will be persuaded by Eric Wynalda.
     
  6. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    I'd agree.

    but also, there aren't a lot of other options to choose from, if we're searching for good "role models to get people into this debate."

    (people, en masse, aren't going to show up for a Nelson Rodriquez session on "MLS - Everything You Always Wanted to Know But Never Had the Chance to Ask" at 2:30pm, but they should. but a good number of people will pop in to see what Wynalda has on his mind for a session called "Why Not US?" at 4pm in the same room on 1/13/12)

    fair points.

    but I'm not talking about the people who will be "persuaded by Eric Wynalda" -- but rather the people who will hear Eric Wynalda (and/or be drawn to his name), and may show some new or additional interest in what he is talking about. (it's not all that difficult to dive deeper beyond what Eric is saying and get to some new truth or item, and realize that Wynalda was actually incorrect or off-base in his assessment/opinion.)

    but yes, admittedly there will be some people who will be persuaded by Wynalda and simply conclude he is right, and MLS is "wrong" and of no interest to them.
     
  7. Ruud11

    Ruud11 Member

    Dec 2, 2009
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Agree, agree, agree.

    Seems that some here just are here to bash Eric but where are their ideas/solutions? The slow boat to China just does not work in this day and age; one has to get radical and think out of the box a bit to get some more drastic improvements in terms of players, coaches, game results, and TV viewers.
     
  8. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, then the issue is whether Eric is one of the "not necessarily" or one of the "on the wholes."

    If he's the former (and he is!) then kenn's point is correct.
     
  9. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Before we come up with solutions, can you define the problem?

    You know who else was radical and thought outside of the box to get drastic improvement?

    Hitler.

    IOW, thinking outside of the box isn't as valuable as you think it is.
     
  10. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    to me, this portion of the discussion is not only about Eric Wynalda, but more importantly about the people who do hear him or are drawn to his name.

    on the whole, those "new listeners" or people gaining a potentially new or expanded interest in some MLS topic are certainly worth adding to the overall conversation.
     
  11. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    I'd suggest it's not so much a "problem" -- but I would say there is an overriding "challenge" that MLS continually faces in terms of seeking and finding possible paths toward (constantly) improving their operations and/or expanding/growing the business in new, better and perhaps different ways.
     
  12. DoctorD

    DoctorD Member+

    Sep 29, 2002
    MidAtlantic
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Except MLS has made steady improvements in terms of players, coaches, and game results. I don't know about TV viewers, but the new contract looks pretty good.

    By the way, has there ever been a breakdown of ESPN's Premiership viewership between games that involve 2 of the bottom dwellers vs 2 of the "big 4" (now big 5 I guess)?
     
  13. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    absolutely.

    and what are the best routes to continuing those improvements, and/or achieving improvements in other areas as well for MLS?

    sessions at the NSCAA are (even in their own small or tangential ways) all part of that process, I would suppose.

    it does. and then the challenge becomes "what's next?"

    can the deal(s) in 2015-20xx be even better?

    I'm guessing there is something like that. I could do some digging, but someone else may have a link readily available. I'd guess that a strong majority of ESPN's EPL matches do at least feature one of the "top of the table" teams.

    edit with link: http://www.epltalk.com/analysis-of-espn2s-epl-tv-viewing-figures-2009-10-16451, admittedly that is from March 2010, so things may have changed since then.
     
  14. Arisrules

    Arisrules Member

    Feb 19, 2000
    Washington, DC

    At a minimum the league should not be playing on mandated FIFA dates. The African tournament is completely different as it is not one of those dates, or rather not included in them. You are comparing apples to oranges, and I do not appreciate that you are cherry picking my thoughts and words, and then misinterpreting them to come to your own conclusion To me playing during the World Cup or FIFA dates is inexcusable. Ideally I wouldn't want to play during any tournaments, but that is likely not feasible.

    Friedel has put his foot in his mouth more often than not, and needs to shut it at times. Reyna proved himself a farce with his experience at NYRB, and we will see what he does in his new role for youth development. I will give props to Earnie Stewart for being a serious individual, and Dooley to a certain extent. But considering what a landmark for American soccer that group of players was, their post-retirement careers as a whole have been underwhelming.
     
  15. Arisrules

    Arisrules Member

    Feb 19, 2000
    Washington, DC
    I am pretty sure that in the past couple of years there have been some afternoon games in Frisco. I am too lazy to look this up, but I seem to remember. I could be wrong. But I am sure that night games can be very hot there, either way, which is my point. I've been at night games in New York that were unbearable. It certainly had a negative impact on the game, and is unnecessarily dangerous for the players exerting themselves.
     
  16. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    The African Cup of Nations is indeed a Fifa International Match Calendar event, and players called to that competition must be released from their clubs.

    beyond that, there is the open issue of is FIFA doing enough to organize/clean-up its own calendar and to get the African Confederation (and other confederations) to move their regional tournaments to June (where it would be better positioned within the overall Fifa calendar). Ideally, all continental confederations would agree to use the same "World Cup weeks" windows but in the non-World Cup years for their confederation championships.

    (not that those specific items are all that relevant to this thread.)
     
  17. triplet1

    triplet1 BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 25, 2006
    Hey now, solutions in search of a problem is a Big Soccer specialty. ;)

    While I'm not suggesting day to day operations are easy, from the publicly available information MLS doesn't have any serious problems right now. I think the actions the league took in 2002 have placed it on a solid footing, and MLS could, if the owners wanted to, continue with very modest changes over the next 20 years and enjoy decent success.

    For those of us old enough to have scars regarding the development of professional club soccer in this country, it's really a remarkable achievement.

    But having reached this level, it just might be possible to take another step -- to grow the league where teams are just as valuable as their mid-level NHL or NBA counterparts. I suspect that's what AEG has in mind, and perhaps some others do too. All they need is revenue. A lot of revenue. But how?

    Stan had a great line earlier: "MLS has built a fanbase on the proposition that TV is not a substitute for the live experience, and reducing the live experience for the sake of TV now strikes as a very bad plan."

    Wish I'd said that . . .

    Anyway, he's right on the mark -- MLS has modeled itself on selling live soccer, and while that strategy has sustained it, the league's dependence on gate receipts and ancillary stadium income in many markets also provides a glass ceiling. As a practical matter, there's just so much "match day" revenue it can generate without a lot of added stadium investment to expand capacity (assuming those seats could even be sold).

    The alternative, of course, is to try and expand the league's fanbase -- and revenue -- not in the stadium but through TV and other broadcast platforms, which hasn't been easy to date.

    So perhaps "problem" isn't the right word, but when Garber says "We’re seeing challenges on television. While our ratings have grown on ESPN and Fox this year they’re not as large as we’d like them to be", I think it's fair to say the league itself would like to improve in this area.


    http://www.nj.com/redbulls/index.ss...don_garber_has_overseen_growth_of_league.html
     
  18. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There have been. They have been at the behest of national TV.

    Three issues:

    1. Personally, I find summer evenings that are around 90 degrees once the sun goes down to be quite pleasant, not unbearable. And over the years, I attended plenty of games in those temperatures. Your own experiences may vary.

    2. How do you quantify "a negative impact on the game," which you think is a certainty in those temperatures?

    3. "Unnecessarily dangerous for the players exerting themselves." Really? C'mon now.
     
  19. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As tab5g pointed out, the African Cup of Nations is a mandated FIFA date, as is the AFC Asian Cup in January. So i was comparing apples to apples. Even if I weren't you said:

    Which is true regardless of when a player is called up in regards to FIFA's calendar. If you're OK with it happening during some tournaments and not others then you're just choosing which ones matter, as MLS is already doing.

    So when you said:

    You really meant except Ramos, and Stewart, and Dooley, and probably a few others we could name if we wanted to go through the whole roster name by name (Lapper? Kooiman? Sommer?).
     
  20. SourCream&OnionUtd

    Nov 19, 1998
    Only a matter of opinion, but extreme heat does I think limit one's options in terms of how you want to set out to play. It naturally lends itself to a possession-based style in which the ball does the work.

    Let's say that you don't have the personnel to really excel with possession and a slower tempo, and so you'd rather press high and often to create your chances through forcing turnovers. You won't be able to do it nearly as often as you'd like, if at all, in extreme heat or humidity. At best you'll have to pick your spots.

    I just think summer heat and humidity does have a negative impact generally. Sigi has said in the past that MLS is a counterattacking league, and I tend to agree with him. It suits most of the talent within the league, but conditions will often dictate that you have to be able to incorporate valuing possession into your approach.
     
  21. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    Very well stated.

    And I'd note that the league is "addressing that tv problem" in some ways by "cramming" four teams into the 2 biggest markets.

    With the longer term goal of continually finding ways to improve/expand the tv deals and revenue, I'd actually say the most immediate need/issue for MLS is to get that 20th team launched -- and it is reasonable for MLS HQ to have staff dedicated to working on that no team yet because of no venue "problem" in NYC.

    In whichever month they choose to start their future seasons, it will be much easier to craft the league schedule with 20 teams is the league rather than 19.

    And having team 20 also in media market #1 can and will help with future tv rights negotiations.
     
  22. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Looks like MLS swept this under the rug, just as you predicted.
    :rolleyes:
     
  23. cthomer5000

    cthomer5000 Member+

    Apr 23, 2007
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Wynalda's answers are as well thought out as the average 'fall to spring' poster here. "Play all the winter games in LA, Dallas, etc"
     
  24. LongDuckDong

    LongDuckDong Member+

    Jan 26, 2011
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well if we implemented his idea this year, there would have been only 5 weeks of "winter" games. That's not a lot.
     
  25. Kejsare

    Kejsare Member+

    Mar 10, 2010
    San Diego, CA
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "[Quoting MLS defenders] Rest of the world does it differently. We do it our way."

    "It's time to turn this into a soccer league."
     

Share This Page