Enough is Enough

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by DHC1, Jun 5, 2020.

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  1. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    It's a terrible way to run an economy as government institutions aren't subject to creative destruction and become rotten from within. We're seeing that with the police system and we're now seeing that it needs to be rebuilt, much like an aging bridge made for the 1950s needs to be replaced (Tappan Zee).
     
  2. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hey, I said I was willing to listen, and I meant it. If you’re telling me that the fundamental goal is not to abolish the American way of life and replace it with a socialist system, I have to take you at face value.

    That said, I do want to voice, so that all the voices are not heard inside an echo chamber, the way it’s coming across is a hostile take over, perhaps hijacking what was meant to be a peaceful protest to initiate meaningful reform for the benefit of all parties.

    More so, when I hear - this person should be compelled to act in this way or be punished or suffer “inhospitable” actions against him, that sounds like Bolshevism to me.
     
  3. Southern Man

    Southern Man Member

    Jun 14, 2008
    Nascar has that "noose that is totally not a noose" issue. Lacrosse was invented by Native Americans.

    I don't have enough knowledge of Golf or Corn-hole, maybe he can follow those.
     
  4. Southern Man

    Southern Man Member

    Jun 14, 2008
    That is not Bolshevism.

    You really appear to need a vocabulary lesson, or maybe even a dictionary.
     
  5. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    What's your point in antagonizing? This isn't someone who did what the cops did - rather, the poster has an opinion that I strongly disagree with - I think s/he has gone off the deep end. How does cancel culture lead to progress?
     
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  6. Southern Man

    Southern Man Member

    Jun 14, 2008
    I'm merely trying to provide a definition, so that everything that ElevenBravo fears doesn't get linked as "socialism." It's like he is a McCarthyite, and I'm not referring to Sir Paul.

    Socialism is a way to organize an economy. There are strengths and weaknesses to it. Capitalism is also a way to organize an economy. It also has strengths and weaknesses. Some of those strengths and weaknesses for both are inherent in the system and others depend on the details of how it is organized.
     
  7. Southern Man

    Southern Man Member

    Jun 14, 2008
    Because I am not going to ignore his constant racist postings.

    You can ignore if you choose.
     
  8. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    you're hung up on pedantry.
    • BLM doesn't mean ONLY black lives matter but rather Black Lives Matter TOO
    • Defund the Police doesn't mean eradicating the police force but to systematically overhaul
    You probably know these things yet are happy to throw stones when convenient.

    Circling back to the USMNT, Weston was very specific when he focused on #EnoughIsEnough. FFS - he's absolutely right,.
     
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  9. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    How does cancel culture lead to progress?
     
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  10. John McGuirk

    John McGuirk Member+

    Jun 12, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe you should ignore him. One of the LEADERS of black lives matter, that peaceful movement you advocate kneeling for, literally said on TV give us want we want or we're burning it all down.

    Can't support kneeling for that, whether you like it or not.
     
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  11. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    binary is more specific than that. Binary is one but not the other. On or off but not on. Binary would be like a traditional light switch. (my analogy). A dimmer would not be binary (it still has two extremes but there is a continuum).

    To clarify that paragraph for you a bit: The emancipation proclamation eliminated slavery (binary because it provides to choices: slavery is legal, slavery is not legal).
    Jim Crow laws removed or reduced the binary effect by restoring some of the status quo that was part of slavery. In other words, instead of acting as a binary choice, the emancipation proclamation moved race relations along a continuum.

    Yes, I agree....there is racism. The problem with your post is that you over simplify things as if they are binary when it is really a continuum. I believe most would agree that racism has evolved over the years. In general, most would agree that it would be correct to say that there is less racism now than there was in 1950, or 1921 for example. That doesn't mean that it has gone away or that it hasn't taken new forms.

    Treating everything as binary certainly simplifies things but it doesn't necessarily give a more accurate picture. Binary criteria can measure achievement of an ultimate goal but doesn't measure progress.
     
  12. Southern Man

    Southern Man Member

    Jun 14, 2008
    How does ignoring clear and consistent racism lead to progress?

    Dude practically called for a race war.
     
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  13. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    Ok, I'll bite. I believe you that somebody said that. My question is: who are the leaders of black lives matter? I may be wrong but I don't get the feeling that it is an organized movement with actual leaders.
     
  14. Southern Man

    Southern Man Member

    Jun 14, 2008
    I'm not hung up on anything. I didn't say anything about BLM or Defund the police.

    If ElevenBravo can't tell the difference between "racism is bad let's do something about it" and "socialists are going to destroy America" then there is really no basis at all for conversation.
     
  15. Southern Man

    Southern Man Member

    Jun 14, 2008
    Maybe you should go ******** yourself.
     
  16. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just curious... where do you define that we strongly disagree?

    For the record, my stances...
    Do I believe in the rights of these protests? yes I do.

    Am I against the rioting and looting?
    Yes I am.

    Do I want to see police reform?
    Yes I do. I hope it’s been noted that I have offered my suggestions on the exact reforms I’m seeking.

    Do I want solidarity?
    Ideally, yes.

    Now, do I want to see persons punished or treated a inhospitable way?
    No, I don’t. But from all my conversations with you, I do not witness you treating people in an antagonist way. You stand your ground -respectfully - but I’ve never known you to be a jerk to someone. So, when you say, to be inhospitable, I have not noticed from you (and some others) the extent of antagonism as experienced from others. That said, I do question that some of your solutions, such as counting who’s an ally (in more or less terms) and demanding actions out of others will produce counterproductive results.

    I think we might fundamentally agree to disagree that the nation, or the system, is racist. Do I think it use to be? Yes, I do. But I also believe we have drastically improved as a nation. I’m wondering where you and I might diverge on this point.

    It might be more accurate to say we just have two different world views on the same matter. On this point, you reassured me that your goals are not to tear down the nation and replace it with an alternative, more socialist system. So, evidently, we must not disagree that that’s the proper solution to the problem.

    Lastly, we might disagree in that I do want to see the USMNT become political.
     
  17. Southern Man

    Southern Man Member

    Jun 14, 2008
    Your "reform" is the black people need to treat the police with more respect...

    Not at all racist to blame the people who are being beaten.
     
  18. John McGuirk

    John McGuirk Member+

    Jun 12, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It would have applied, but USSF rescinded the kneeling rule.
     
  19. Cynical US fan

    United States
    Mar 30, 2017
    Boston
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're like my gung-ho, Republican "son-in-law" who served 3 tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, and has shrapnel at the back of his head and severe migraine from an IED during his 1st tour. He just doesn't understand what Republicans have done to this nation.
    Foment repeated, useless wars. Entitle the rich and defense to even more wealth. People of color out of proportion inequality in education, health care, wages, etc. No, with all do respect, we have NOT improved as a nation. You are in denial, my friend.
    We absolutely need a majority of Democrats back in congress and in the presidency. Otherwise, nothing will change for the better. How dare the electoral college choose a narcissist in chief, a bully boy without an ounce of smarts.
     
  20. Cynical US fan

    United States
    Mar 30, 2017
    Boston
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're like my gung-ho, Republican "son-in-law" who served 3 tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, and has shrapnel at the back of his head and severe migraine from an IED during his 1st tour. He just doesn't understand what Republicans have done to this nation.
    Foment repeated, useless wars. Entitle the rich and defense to even more wealth. People of color out of proportion inequality in education, health care, wages, etc. No, with all do respect, we have NOT improved as a nation. You are in denial, my friend.
    We absolutely need a majority of Democrats back in congress and in the presidency. Otherwise, nothing will change for the better. How dare the electoral college choose a narcissist in chief, a bully boy without an ounce of smarts.
     
  21. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I had to go back and look at the ignored messages to see who people were talking to because I already hit the ignore button on this poster.

    What I’ve come to learn on BigSoccer and life, some people are just trolls. There’s a big difference between someone like him, and someone like @DHC1 and others.

    To be honest, @DHC1 and I might not ever see things eye-to-eye. There are some things he says, that blow my mind. And maybe there are some things I say to him that blow his mind. But without a doubt, I believe he has always listened to what I’ve had to say, given me the benefit of the doubt, and not tried to censor me by putting me into a box. I hope he feels I have treated him the same way. In that environment, I believe we can learn from one another. And I’m willing to debate him (and others), because I respect him.

    That said, I’m not going down the road with that guy and others whose first instinct is to go on the attack, to stir the pot, and to accuse me of malicious intent. Hopefully, I’d speak out against someone if they were doing the same on “my team.” In short, there’s assholes of every color, creed, and side. I find it best to not engage with them.
     
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  22. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sounds like I would enjoy talking with your son-in-law lol, and we might settle on agreeing to disagree on things.
     
  23. John McGuirk

    John McGuirk Member+

    Jun 12, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I too was in the Army so we both are more likely to defend standing up for the anthem.
     
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  24. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    do you feel the same way when Jerry Jones or other owners said that their players had to stand or they have to leave the team? What about the Yankees prohibition on facial hair?
     
  25. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    I strongly disagree with Pretty much everything you wrote in posts 162 and 169.
     

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