English players Dual Nationality thread #2

Hard to believe the article stating he is now open to representing Scotland as he was born there and represented them at youth level .. realistically I don’t think he thought England was a possibility. Newspaper creating clickbait headlines

 

He's made himself 'available to Scotland ' although he had already only played for them?

As shallow as they are on depth, he's still nowhere near good enough for their midfield.

 

I was going to say would he even get in their squad

 

If Portugal are open to offering Mane a World Cup place, like that article is suggesting, then we can't really match that. I'm doubtful they actually would offer him a place when you look at their options though. They'd have to leave someone a lot more senior out, and even then Mane would probably have to pip one of (or both) Quenda and Mora to a place, who are their two most high-profile prospects. I don't necessarily think they could justify it on merit any easier than we could

Either way we should be doing everything in our power to keep him on board. He's a very good prospect and it's quite rare for attackers of his age to make such an immediate impact in the Premier League.

 

They would be mad to offer him a World Cup place, that's the type of thing the Yanks would do as they have so few options. Portugal would be weakening there squad doing that.

England need to call him up to the 21s and make the path way clear to him.

 

Is it just me or are nations far more predatory at going after our duals than other nations? I get that France lose a lot of players, but it always seems like it’s after they have snubbed them for several years. Whereas with us, the vultures seem to circle much more quickly, trying to prise our players away when they have only just broken into football and/or when they are still in their teens.

 

Mane has lived in England and Portugal just about the same time amount as far as I can tell, I seem to remember them calling him up to a youth squad the same window as England did a while ago. They have just as much right to call him up as we do.

 

Yeah, it's basically the same as Dier playing for England.

Hopefully we can hang onto him but he will remember living in Portugal, so it's not going to be a straightforward decision for him. I wonder if Tuchel will give us bigger pulling power in these kinds of situations. I often wondered if the perception of Southgate's England as a closed shop pushed some dual nationals away (although in reality, Tuchel may well be running an even more closed shop based on his last few squad selections).

 

I dunno, we’ve just had a Welsh born international switch to England in the women’s game and Karamoko Dembele chose England over Scotland despite only living here for one year as a baby.

Mane chose England over Portugal at u18 level not long ago and has only played for England so far, let’s see what happens.

 

We quite obviously have a big advantage in dual national recruitment with the likes of Scotland, Wales and Ireland. Ultimately players mostly want to play for countries that will help them win or help them achieve commercial success. If England have a disadvantage recruiting with nations like France, it's probably because players feel like they have a better chance of winning with them.

 

Englands player pool is very deep at the moment, therefore irresistible for other countries to 'skim' off the system.

In the past decade, not only has our ceiling been lifted, but our development floor has been lifted too. Many people forget the second part.

So now England are feeling the consequences of churning out players who currently considered average/decent within Englands player pool, but high profile or even at the top end of other countries player pools.

France have been suffering this trade-off for decades and probably the only nation who still outperform England on producing elite footballers, eligible for more than one country.

Although I do agree that it feels like Englands pool is getting skimmed left, right and centre. France only appear to have African diaspora countries skimming their system. England seems to have every tom, prick and harry skimming ours...

 

Tuchel supposedly got involved with Harvey Barnes so hopefully he will at least get involved here.

 

If he's in the next squad good I guess, but he barely deserves to be there on merit.

 

The Granny Rule is the one that irritates me the most. It has to either be tightened up or removed completely.

It's too open to abuse by certain countries. It's also unfair to other (often weaker) nations, who are forced to play their team of home grown players against an opposition, where most have been skimmed from European Ecosystems.

Examples of this are Morocco, who do this in African qualifiers and then the US, who's strategy is to dominate their neighbors by flooding their team with players they skimmed from Germany, Holland and England

The Granny Rule won't eliminate this problem completely, but it will at least stop certain countries like Wales and Ireland gaming the system.

 

The US doesn't use the granny rule generally to get players.

 

Their citizenship laws don’t really allow it and they don’t tend to rush through citizenship for Sporting reasons (Seen recently in Figure Skating).

 

I can’t see FIFA ever getting the removal of the granny rule through its current voting method. More countries benefit than are disadvantaged.

 

I'm aware of that. We'll still have certain nations (like the US or Turkey) who will continue to skim from Europe, even despite if FIFA tightens the granny rule.

The only reason I brought it up, is because it's a joke shop that certain countries can build a whole core of players, who only qualify via the granny rule.

Wales and Ireland have made it a national strategy. And recently Malaysia got caught recruiting a bunch of players from Europe and South America, by forging their granny birth certificates.

 

I also have this impression but it might just be that we are more aware of players from England.

Using the Nordic countries as an example. Matt O'Riley and Biereth are from London and now represent Denmark. Another from the capital is Tomas Galvez but plays for Finland. Aasgaard is from Liverpool and plays for Norway. The likes of Genesis Antwi and Elanga were born in Sweden but have lived half of their life in England. Now do any of these nations have players from non-Nordic nations other than England?

Michael Olise has been mentioned. France have also called-up Thimothee Lo-Tutala, Jayden Fevrier and Noubissie in the past. How many other players who grew up outside France, other than England, have they previously selected?

Germany of course have Senior internationals Musiala and Nmecha. But they've also called up Miracle Adewole, Kwadwo Baah, Rio Bromfield, Paul Glatzel, Vincent Joseph, Floyd Samba etc That kid from Villa as well. When they selected Justin Seven-Seven recently, he was the only lad from outside Germany iirc.

Are Austria going to add Carney Chukwuemeka to Kevin Danso who were both raised in England? Do they have any other players raised outside Austria, other than England of course?

Italy have picked Goalkeeper Lucca Benetton, Cyril Lartey and Amihere from West Brom, Rodella from Southampton, Giani from Stoke They do also have a few players from Germany but as many as from England?

Spain have chosen goalkeeper Darlington Osuchukwu. As I recall when they announced their U15 squad Edeson Ogunlana (Liverpool) was the only player from outside England. Believe this is also the case for their U14 squad with Tolani Raheem from Man City.

As I said, could be we just notice it more when players from England get scouted. But I do get the impression some of these countries are more focused on England than other places for whatever reason...

Don't the US produce a lot of players for their neighbours though? Especially in the Women's game, even for England in the case of Karen Bardsley.