English players Dual Nationality thread #2

If Aaron Wan-Bissaka continues to be overlooked for the England squad, sources indicate it is inevitable the player will opt to represent DR Congo. If he misses out on the next squad, there is said to be an increasing likelihood that he commits to Congo #mulive [@David_Ornstein]

— utdreport (@utdreport) March 1, 2021

Not sure this is the best way go about trying to get into the England squad. Don’t think Southgate will pick him based on this threat to switch to Congo if he’s not picked!

 

he simply offers nothing going forward that's why he never gets a look in

 

It's not true that he offers nothing going forward. He's improved on that side of his game this season and has 2 goals and 2 assists in the Premier League.

 

when you compare him to the 4 right back in front of him, he offers nothing, yes he is a good player and yes he has improved but not nearly enough to jump those 4 players

 

If Southgate continues with playing a back three then maybe AWB could be an option at right centre back, say next to Stones and Maguire. He’s a very solid defender and great when it comes to 1 v 1’s and since it’s unlikely Gomez will be back, could be worth a look.

 

yeah that's pretty much his only way in

 

Speaking of RCB... I’d like to see Ben White given a chance. Might have to wait until September but he’s worth a look at.

 

If he comes back to us, the meltdown by USA fans, especially on Twitter will be brutal!

No quotes or anything though so not sure about the source but The Secret Scout did hint about this quite some time back. I mean he’s probably looking at being in the U21’s at best at the moment which still isn’t bad for a 17 year old, probably take Nelsons place who has dropped off a cliff but if he chooses us then presumably it goes beyond football and just doesn’t feel a connection to the US which in all honesty wouldn’t surprise me.

 

Still be surprised if he picked England , hopefully he does though.

 

I suspect his preference would be to represent England, with the only impediment to that being a more difficult pathway into the seniors. It makes sense for him to delay the decision for as long as he can until he gets a sense of what level he's going to end up at. It'll be interesting to see if he makes himself available for U21 selection, though I could see him dodging that regardless of who he favours.

 

It's an interesting one, on the one hand, his connection to the USA is basically non existent, his mother was just holidaying there when he was born. But then based on his life, I imagine there's a good chance he doesn't really feel a strong connection to any country.

On the other hand, if he played for them he has a very high chance of playing in a world cup next year, while his pathway to playing for England is going to be extremely difficult. Although if he can start getting minutes in central midfield the competition isn't so intense.

 

Complicated case; Born 2004 in France, family moved to London a fortnight after his birth and he was good enough to interest the West Ham academy but family had to return to France. He doesn't say at what age that happened but I'm guessing around five, seems to have been at PSG from 2011-2015. Comes back to England at 11 and then left for France again at about 15. From what I can ascertain he's lived roughly 50/50 of his life in both countries.



Need at least five years education in England to be eligible but I'm not exactly sure of the intricacies of this rule.

 

Jamaican football federation is trying to convince these players to play for them:

Ivan Toney
Mason Holgate
Andre Gray
Demarai Gray
Max Aarons
Liam Moore
Kemar Roofe
Nathan Redmond
Isaac Hayden

That would make them an extremely interesting team! 🇯🇲 pic.twitter.com/hBtWcINvuV

— Football Talent Scout - Jacek Kulig (@FTalentScout) March 3, 2021

Can’t see Aarons, Holgate or Toney switching anytime soon, the others maybe but are they that entertained of the thought of playing in the Gold Cup with all due respect.

 

People are already freaking out, im not surprised though people foolishly thought it was a done deal with the two friendly caps, but it obvious he was just kicking the tires

 

It's starting to sound like they're more keen on things than either of us would have expected. This is coming straight from the head of the JFF:

1366982325020487681 is not a valid tweet id

If we are to believe the JFF president, the following players are not just interested, but have actually started the passport process:

Michail Antonio (we knew that already)
Andre Gray (knew that too)
Kemar Roofe (not news)
Liam Moore (knew that)
Demarai Gray (wait what?)
Nathan Redmond (ok whoa)
Mason Holgate (seriously?!)
Isaac Hayden (wow)
Ivan Toney (figured he'd wait?)

According to the JFF, Max Aarons is the only player listed above that apparently HASN'T started the passport process.

Now, this all sounds a bit too good to be true so I'm taking it with a grain of salt.

But you know the old saying: where there is smoke, there is fire. And the head of the JFF going on record confirming these players are basically on board and starting the process for a passport...that is A LOT of smoke.

After the Antonio announcement (prior to that I really didn't expect him either), I would not have held my breath for Gray, Redmond, Holgate, hayden or Toney. It looks like the odds of at least a few of those guys joining are quite a bit higher than expected, and we will see some, if not all, commit and secure passports in 2021.

Aarons is still young, and one of England's 10 most valuable fullbacks (6th most valuable right back). But there is a lot of competition for England's fullback roles. Has he decided that he'd rather just join up with his cousin (Rolando) and get a more certain role with Jamaica started instead? Maybe. I would be surprised if he made that decision, but I guess anything is possible at this point.

 

I'd be surprised by Aarons too. The rest? Not really - slight shame for us if Toney doesn't want to wait and see whether he can get into an England squad next season, but the others looks like long shots to ever get more than a handful of caps.

 

And, to this specific point, I don't think the Gold Cup is what they're thinking about. If all or just most of these players commit, in addition to players who have already joined (Daniel Johnson, Ravel, Decordova-Reid, etc) and the quality homegrown options already included (Andre Blake, Kemar Lawrence, etc)...this is not just a Gold Cup team. It's a World Cup team.

Remember, we're a CONCACAF side. CONCACAF has three berths + a playoff spot right now, and nowhere near the depth of a UEFA or CONMEBOL. Mexico and the USA are the class of the region - after that, it's open season for the third spot and the playoff berth (and as we saw last cycle when the USA missed WC 2018, even the top 2 can stumble).

The central americans have all declined - Costa Rica's golden WC 2014 generation has aged out and been ineffectively replaced. Panama has stagnated or declined slightly for similar reasons. Honduras the same. Those teams were debatedly only at or slightly below Jamaica's level during Gold Cup 2019, and that was BEFORE adding all of these players. Canada has risen, but was still our equal at best BEFORE these additions. The rest of the Caribbean is below our level, as are the more minor central american sides (El Salvador, Guatemala, etc).

That's the extent of our competition for the third spot + the playoff: none of our rivals are above our level (at least on paper), and most are arguably below it even BEFORE additions.

With all of these players in the side, Jamaica has the third best player pool in CONCACAF - we have a VERY good shot at World Cup 2022 and are close to a lock for World Cup 2026 (when expansion gives CONCACAF 6 full berths - with the exception of Antonio and maybe Andre Gray, all of the names mentioned above will likely still be playing at a high level by then and in the run to be regulars in the side).

So long story short, we're beyond just offering Gold Cup caps. If these guys sign up now, they have a VERY realistic path to a World Cup appearance - possibly more than one. The Gold Cups are just bonuses.

And it won't just be merely playing in those Gold Cups - Jamaica went to the final in each of 2015 and 2017 and reached the semis in 2019 BEFORE additions. Add all of these guys, and we have a very good chance at winning one of these Gold Cups too.

 

Feels like we could be losing a heck of a lot of homegrown talent very soon. Whilst most of them aren’t a great loss to us presently, some still might end being good enough. Our player pool will ultimately take a hit, with Jamaica and Nigeria currently pursuing players. Only Southgate was saying encouragingly yesterday that we are currently around 40% English qualified players in the Premier League which is pretty much similar to my figures on the other thread but I think we will start to see a decrease for a time from next season if all these players switch, plus maybe a few others players like AWB to Congo. Interesting to see what happens in the future and how many we lose so soon but it is what it is.

 

Again, not expecting Aarons. We'll see, but it would surprise me.

Toney...at this point, while unlikely, I think the chance is significantly greater than zero. I didn't see Antonio coming at all and absolutely did not expect to hear that guys like Demarai Gray and Redmond were actually starting passport applications. Clearly anything can happen.

Robbie Earle...In 1998, following the World Cup, Earle was entering his 17th season of professional club football. His career was over less than 2 years after that 1998 World Cup appearance. I don't know that putting his relatively short international career down to boredom is fair - it looks like we got him at the very tail end of his career and he just got old.

Redmond and Ireland - again, we'll have to see. If Ricketts is saying that he has started the passport process (and, again, that's a big claim to make on the record), then obviously nothing to worry about. We make more sense anyway - Jamaica (assuming the player pool includes most of these names) will always have an easier path to the World Cup in CONCACAF than Ireland will in UEFA, especially after 2026. If Redmond's goal is to maximize World Cup odds, we're the better choice.