English players Dual Nationality thread #2

Discussion in 'England' started by roverman, Sep 26, 2020.

  1. ChristianSur

    ChristianSur Member+

    May 5, 2015
    Club:
    Sheffield Wednesday FC
    Yeah, if Mighten hasn't improved since we had him on loan a couple of years ago then I wouldn't get too exercised either way. He puts in the effort but he's all pace and very little else.
     
  2. Crvena Zvezda

    Crvena Zvezda Member

    Manchester United
    England
    Apr 11, 2017
    Another two goals for Mason Greenwood this evening for Marseille....the guy is on fire! Exactly the young goalscorer England need for the future as the cupboard is getting ever barer.
    Here is full story on the social media controversy for those who have immediately rushed to judge and condemn him. And to think we are going to lose him to Jamaica because unlike various clubs and the Jamaican FA England makes its moral judgements and selection decisions through tabloid headlines....or fear of them
    https://global.espn.com/football/report/_/gameId/704307
     
  3. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    The biggest tabloid in England has printed lots of very supportive articles about him so not sure about that.
     
  4. Crvena Zvezda

    Crvena Zvezda Member

    Manchester United
    England
    Apr 11, 2017
    What has JK Rowling got to say on the subject though? That's the important thing.
     
  5. Iansutton270390

    Iansutton270390 Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    England
    Jan 12, 2019
    We have to look at the bigger picture here unfortunately. Gareth Southgate did a lot to repair the image of this national team to encourage people from different persuasions to support us. If you look back at our recent tournaments, we’ve had everybody from every walk of life there cheering us on and I think having greenwood in the team would damage that.

    whether he’s guilty or not, we all heard that tape and saw exactly what he was doing. Unfortunately our national team would be branded as a national disgrace and we’d get all kinds of protests that would over shadow our games.
    Plus, we also have to take into account the boys safety. He’d be threatened left right and centre from the maniac fans (and god knows we have our fair share). I just don’t see a way around it unfortunately, that’s the world we live in.
     
  6. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    If he was playing in the PL some of those issues might over time has receded a bit but while he is abroad that won’t happen.
     
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  7. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    It is always morbidly fascinating to see how Greenwood defenders manipulate reality to suit their stance.

    You have to feel for Mason in all this for he has been….

    *****checks notes******

    overly morally judged.
     
  8. Iansutton270390

    Iansutton270390 Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    England
    Jan 12, 2019
    I doubt he will ever come back to the premier league after what’s happened but yeah I agree. The dust would have settled eventually.
     
  9. Gaz811

    Gaz811 Member+

    Everton FC
    England
    Oct 15, 2018
    I wonder if they'd be so willing to forgive him if he wasn't so good at football.
     
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  10. ChristianSur

    ChristianSur Member+

    May 5, 2015
    Club:
    Sheffield Wednesday FC
    Or, more accurately, because it makes moral judgements at all. If Jamaica's FA don't care then that's on them.
     
  11. ChristianSur

    ChristianSur Member+

    May 5, 2015
    Club:
    Sheffield Wednesday FC
    I'm trying to avoid getting personal, but it's just absolutely pathetic. The FA can only be in thrall to the tabloids if they have reservations about picking a rapist? A recording of one of our players threatening one of the vilest things can do to someone is just a "social media controversy"? Ok, fine, if you say so.
     
  12. AJ123

    AJ123 Member+

    Man Utd
    England
    Feb 17, 2018
    The cupboard is running bare of right wingers/inside forwards?

    Saka
    Foden
    Palmer
    Madueke
    Bowen
    Elliot

    There also Max Dowman in the 17s who is probably the biggest England talent since Bellingham.

    Greenwood was average in Europe’s second ranked league last season and is doing better after moving to the 5th ranked league. Let’s see if he can ever really step up before getting excited.
     
  13. Crvena Zvezda

    Crvena Zvezda Member

    Manchester United
    England
    Apr 11, 2017
    I honestly think most England fans would like to prioritise us winning the next world cup and if Mason Greenwood could be the difference between us doing that or not they might be more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt over his guilt.
    Imagine we got knocked out the next world cup by a Greenwood goal in a group game. Would our sense of moral superiority over Jamaica make it any less frustrating?
     
  14. Crvena Zvezda

    Crvena Zvezda Member

    Manchester United
    England
    Apr 11, 2017
    Sometimes there are more to things than meet the eye, That is why there is a judicial process and juries called to pass judgements on accusations, rather than than just a frothing at the mouth kneekerk reaction.
    Look at the full story....the lady who released the video never reported the matter to the police and did not cooperate with the investigation. The police did not proceed with the case due to this and also 'new evidence that came to light' . MG gave his own explanation to Man U which was accepted and his side of the story was backed up by the girl's family. Would they really seriously do that if they believed him to be violently abusing and raping their daughter? Would the apparent victim herself want to marry and have a family with such a man subsequent to this abuse? It doesn't seem plausible to me.
    Until we know the full story - and there evidently is a lot more to it than first apparent - then nobody should be passing judgement and certainly not banishing an extremely talented young footballer who also has a lot of goalscoring potential from representing his country for life on this basis.
    Remember the abuse Ched Evans got and the celebrities coming out the woodwork demanding he never play professional football again? Well it turned out that he was actually not a rapist at all. At least he had the benefit of a trial though to present his case.
     
  15. ChristianSur

    ChristianSur Member+

    May 5, 2015
    Club:
    Sheffield Wednesday FC
    I mean, I've asked you what remotely plausible context could possibly excuse the recorded exchange that I'm sure we've all heard, and you had nothing. If you want people to give someone the benefit of the doubt then you do have to be able to introduce some meaningful doubt. I can't find it.

    You mention this "new evidence"; if it was anything that might exonerate Greenwood in the public eye then why on earth would they have kept it to themselves all this time, while he bounces from club to club as a figure of hate? That's what I find implausible. A woman going back to her abusive partner is all too common. For charges to be dropped as a result is also common. Greenwood being accepted back into the fold by his partner's father, whose statements at the time seemed more concerned about the recordings and photos being released than by what they revealed, is pretty grim but not a great shock to me.

    Ched Evans is a whole other situation, and it's pointless making comparisons. We'll never know whether he raped anyone, but I went over as much of the available evidence as I could find at the time and I could never make any sense of the jury's certainty, so I was glad to see him acquitted at the retrial. Crucially, if anyone wanted (or wants) me to explain in detail the basis for my doubt, I could. Can you?
     
  16. Iansutton270390

    Iansutton270390 Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    England
    Jan 12, 2019
    Absolutely not. It would be very frustrating if that scenario were to happen. it’s a very subjective thing though. Some people wouldn’t care about his past and welcome him back into the England squad with open arms.
    other people would be worried this would set a standard and leave the door open for future offenders to compete for a place in the team.
    Like i said before, our image as a national team would be damaged beyond repair. But then again, would we swap that for a World Cup?
     
  17. AJ123

    AJ123 Member+

    Man Utd
    England
    Feb 17, 2018
    People forget that his time with England wasn't great even before the notorious incident. He was mysteriously withdrawn from the u17 Euros and when he did get called up to the seniors he got in trouble with Phil Foden and they were sent home. It has since transpired that his dad didn't want him in England squads unless he was guaranteed game time. Everything around Greenwood has been had a whiff of something off from day one. He really isn't worth it.
     
  18. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    Jacob Devaney of Man Utd is in Ireland’s U19 squad. A 2007. So, playing a year up.
     
  19. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    Ian Ashbee who was capped for England at youth level. His son is also in that Ireland U19 squad.
     
  20. MrSnrub

    MrSnrub Member+

    Oct 7, 2018
    Yeah i'm not sure why people ignore that he was on indefinite hiatus from England of his own accord even before the incident. Plenty of us said on here before that even happened it was looking unlikely he'd have much of an England career what with his continuous mystery pull outs followed by not wanting to be selected at all.
     
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  21. ADM99

    ADM99 Member+

    Apr 28, 2019
    Quality player, like him a lot. Although, Jayce Fitzgerald is now back from injury and definitely the superior player at the moment.
     
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  22. Athlone

    Athlone Member+

    Feb 2, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    Jamaica
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  23. horrisengleton

    horrisengleton Member+

    Arsenal
    England
    Jul 18, 2023
    Valencia, Spain
    We were having this discussion the other day on another thread. We thought it was just one of the UK tabloids being stupid and not doing their research.

    I do think Nketiah has a solid chance of working his way into the England squad fwiw, especially with Ivan Toney in Saudi Arabia now. One to watch for sure though.
     
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  24. Gaz811

    Gaz811 Member+

    Everton FC
    England
    Oct 15, 2018


    Olise finally learn french. Probably finally gets cap tied this window. At least we've always known where we were with him.
     
  25. Athlone

    Athlone Member+

    Feb 2, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    Jamaica
    Former England International Trevor Sinclair has joined Steve McClaren's Jamaica National Team staff. He had a long 13 year run in the Premiership with QPR, West Ham and Man City. Most of that time was spent at West Ham, during which stint he earned most of his 12 caps for England. He was eligible for Jamaica and Ireland as well and nearly ended up playing for the latter, but was blocked by a youth cap tie.

    Sinclair has publicly defended Greenwood multiple times, (although he has not spoken up since the domestic violence charges). I suspect that is not a coincidence.
     

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