English players Dual Nationality thread #2

Discussion in 'England' started by roverman, Sep 26, 2020.

  1. AJ123

    AJ123 Member+

    Man Utd
    England
    Feb 17, 2018
    Moukoko and Cherki both looked completely insane at youth level but haven't really translated it to senior level. I don't think you can ever say players are dead certs, although people do after the fact.
     
  2. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    And Moukoko was probably an adult considering his age is apparently four years older.
     
  3. AJ123

    AJ123 Member+

    Man Utd
    England
    Feb 17, 2018
    Maybe but he kind of looks the same age now as when he was 12. I'm not convinced it was age doping.
     
  4. horrisengleton

    horrisengleton Member+

    Arsenal
    England
    Jul 18, 2023
    Valencia, Spain
    Can argue it's the inevitable consequence of the the Brexit regulations. The big boys hoovering all up all the domestic academy talent was always going to produce an even bigger inequality in the youth leagues. FA need to introduce some restrictions on the volume of players these clubs can poach.
     
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  5. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    All what that will do is see the big clubs put less focus on the academy - all the big clubs are moving towards multi club models with academy’s abroad and that could speed it up. The financial benefits of the academy benefit the clubs but not to the extent that some could downgrade them if not useful anymore.
     
  6. horrisengleton

    horrisengleton Member+

    Arsenal
    England
    Jul 18, 2023
    Valencia, Spain
    I very much doubt that. Nobody's saying stop them taking other club's players full stop, just place some restrictions on what's going on right now which is straight up hoarding.
     
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  7. Crvena Zvezda

    Crvena Zvezda Member

    Manchester United
    England
    Apr 11, 2017
    I'm pretty sure Ellis Simms never got 7 goals in an under-18 game whilst still an under-16 player! Obi is clearly a massive prospect for the future, just concerning we may have botched our chances with him already.
     
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  8. ADM99

    ADM99 Member+

    Apr 28, 2019
    He simply chose Denmark, we didn't 'botch' anything. When he did play for England he got unlucky with an injury that meant he didn't play much.

    If he had been fit and started that game against Denmark would things have turned out differently? I doubt it.
     
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  9. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Yeah, think we established that he didn’t qualify for us anyway so couldn’t be selected and Denmark his only option so makes zero sense to reject them in the hope that he might play for us in a few years time meanwhile missing out on the U17’s Euros.
     
  10. Crvena Zvezda

    Crvena Zvezda Member

    Manchester United
    England
    Apr 11, 2017
    He actually chose to play for England ahead of Denmark for that tournament. He was then just left out the team for the two games he could have played before injury so the only lesson he got out the experience was that he was going to be second choice.
    Its exasperating that England youth coaches aren't able to see the bigger picture when they are managing their sides, rather than just a short term trial for a club role which it seems to be in most cases. Yes he wouldn't be able to play competitive games til next season for England anyway bu that's not a long time to wait.
     
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  11. ADM99

    ADM99 Member+

    Apr 28, 2019
    There were 3 strikers at that tournament: Fletcher, Mheuka & Obi.

    Mheuka started the first game against Cyprus, Fletcher the second against Scotland & Obi would've almost certainly started the third against Denmark had he been fit. It's just a case of simple rotation that England always do in non-competitive games.
     
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  12. Crvena Zvezda

    Crvena Zvezda Member

    Manchester United
    England
    Apr 11, 2017
    That's all very well but he will start every game for Denmark. It was a great coup to get him in the squad in the first place and just saying to him, he'll get one match at the end, wait your turn as that is the way we do things, isn't the impression they needed to make and isn't going to encourage him to keep playing for England. Sometimes you need to be flexible and be able to see the wood for the trees.
     
  13. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    He didn’t choose England over Denmark like it was some type of coup though. He decided to try another option after already playing with Denmark. The decision wasn’t a big deal and has happened before with other players who have had limited intentions towards us.

    Claiming that it was a big deal doesn’t make it a fact.

    Many people really create alternate realities on this thread. Every other nation are soulless vindictive thieves and we are constantly bumbling idiots making grave foolish errors (that are really either minor issues or dealing with massively challenging circumstantial issues).
     
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  14. KHSAFC

    KHSAFC Member

    Sunderland
    England
    Feb 12, 2023
    Omari Hutchinson has scored two brilliant goals for Ipswich in their crucial game vs Hull tonight. He’s a superb player.

    On a side note, Liam Delap is back from injury for Hull and has scored.
     
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  15. Crvena Zvezda

    Crvena Zvezda Member

    Manchester United
    England
    Apr 11, 2017
    Carvalho has been doing really well for Hull recently. Not sure if he's managed to sort his UK passport still though as I know he was having problems passing the test a couple of years back
     
  16. AJ123

    AJ123 Member+

    Man Utd
    England
    Feb 17, 2018
    He came to England as an older child and doesn’t have any English parentage. This profile of player is always going to be hard to recruit and I don’t think you can blame the FA when we don’t.

    Hutchinson’s stats for the season are very good, especially his defensive work. Looks like he works hard of the ball which is crucial for stepping up into the Premier League. Now this is a dual national battle we should be able to win, although he doesn’t seem that bothered about international football.

    https://fbref.com/en/players/bd9553e6/scout/12193/Omari-Hutchinson-Scouting-Report
     
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  17. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    FCK's development director Sune Smith-Nielsen tells Tipsbladet about the great talent Chidozie Obi-Martin, who as a youngster played on FCK's youth team.

    Danish Chidozie Obi-Martin is becoming a bigger and bigger name in the football world.

    The 16-year-old Danish striker has delivered absolutely wild numbers for Arsenal's U18 team. The Dane has scored 24 goals in the last seven games. A total of 28 goals have been scored this season.

    The great Danish talent moved to Arsenal as a 13-year-old, before which he was part of FC Copenhagen's youth system.

    Tipsbladet spoke to Sune Smith-Nielsen, who is development director at FC Copenhagen, who could easily see Chidozie Obi-Martin's talent.

    - Yes, he played with us until he was 13, when the family then moved to London. I think it was the mother who got a job in London and then the father and the brothers moved with them.

    - He was a huge talent. He has been a huge talent since he was six years old. He played for periods two years up, and he has always had huge potential offensively. He has a wild technique and fantastic physical abilities.

    - I think his last games were at U13, but I can't quite remember if he also managed to play for U14. Chidozie is 07s, but he played mostly with 05s and 06s.

    - We are very pleased that he is doing so well at Arsenal. Then he can always get into FCK's first team when Arsenal don't give him the chance, says Sune Smith-Nielsen to Tipsbladet.

    FC Copenhagen can even make a small fortune on Chidozie Obi-Martin if he is sold one day.

    According to UEFA's rules for solidarity money, FCK is entitled to half a percent of a future sale, as Chidozie Obi-Martin played for FCK as a 12- and 13-year-old.

    https://www.tipsbladet.dk/nyhed/superliga/kaempe-arsenal-talent-har-fck-fortid-doeren-er-aaben
     
  18. Regis Prograis

    Regis Prograis Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Feb 8, 2020
    Sounds like he didn't move to England till late 2020 or the 2021 so probably at least 18 months to 2 years before he would be eligible (if that's what he wanted to do)
     
  19. MrSnrub

    MrSnrub Member+

    Oct 7, 2018
    Seems like his connection to England is extremely tenuous. File him in the Haaland category of "technically eligible" )or will be) but not something we should be kicking ourselves about. If he's THAT good he would be potentially looking at senior call ups for Denmark before he even became eligible for England.
     
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  20. Crvena Zvezda

    Crvena Zvezda Member

    Manchester United
    England
    Apr 11, 2017
    I think there's a lot of difference between having lived here as a baby for a couple of years with no memories compared to 12 or 13 as you are hitting puberty and evolving your identity.
    It was a few years back and the coach doesn't seem to remember exact details but he may have been an under-13 but not actually reached his 13th birthday if he moved in 2020 (which other article stated) If so he could qualify under 5 year rule and then feature at under-19's onwards potentially.
    At current rate of development though Denmark are likely to try fasttrack him before that and if he breaks through to Arsenal first team before then he would certainly be in contention for their seniors.
     
  21. MrSnrub

    MrSnrub Member+

    Oct 7, 2018
    Even so it does make it hell of a longshot to expect a player to actively hold out for a country when he's only been here 3, possibly 4 years having been born and raised in Denmark. I can't really think of a case like that. Difficult to expect him to turn down the chance to make the name for himself at the under 17 euro's for example, in favour of maybe one day being back in the England squad if he becomes eligible. Which in itself is no guarantee, I imagine he'll be getting plenty of interest from other major European clubs at the moment.
     
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  22. Crvena Zvezda

    Crvena Zvezda Member

    Manchester United
    England
    Apr 11, 2017
    It possibly is a longshot but not unprecdented. There's plenty of African born players for European teams, like Moukoko who came over at possibly ten and was representing Germany by the time he was 13....or alternatively was 12 or 13 when he came over from Cameroon depending on how you view it. Even at senior level Diego Costa ended up spurning Brazil to take the chance to play for Spain through residency. I don't approve of that rule though allowing adult residency qualification....I think five year before 18 is a lot more reasonable.
     
  23. MrSnrub

    MrSnrub Member+

    Oct 7, 2018
    #5449 MrSnrub, May 2, 2024
    Last edited: May 2, 2024
    I'm not saying there aren't cases of players taking residency and then playing for a nation though, I'm saying its a unique case to expect him to actively hold out to become eligible which is still 1-2 years away. There's no motivation for him to do that really, not least because its not guaranteed he will ever become eligible for England - I would be far from sure he remains at Arsenal, presumably he'll be getting a lot of interest this summer.
     
  24. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    Maybe it’s the German’s turn to convince him to wait a few years :ninja:
     
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