We will not get a chance to even try because we will be expelled from the tournament at some stage prior to the final as punishment for the behaviour of our hooligans in Portugal. They are going to tear the place apart following their enforced rest during the summer of 2002. Discuss.
I think one of the negatives that will put England under further scrutiny is the absence of some of the other national teams that tend to attract rowdy fans. If Turkey was in the tournament, UEFA would have to have a pretty compelling reason to kick out England if Turkey's fans were behaving as they usually do (unless both teams were kicked out). As it is, England fans probably have the worst reputation (deserved or not) by some length relative to the traveling fans of the other teams that qualified (am I missing anyone here? Maybe if the Dutch fans were closer to home? Certain segments of German fans?). As a result, bad behavior by England fans (even if there is relatively little) is more likely than usual to stick out. Hopefully the friendly, laidback and generally benign nature of the host country will lead to a nice atmosphere for all of the national teams and the FA/Home Office will do a good job of limiting the access of the hardened troublemakers to the tournament. If England begins the tournament with a flourish and UEFA punishes them in the midst for the behavior of a token group of fans - especially when the England players and FA have gone to such lengths to marginalize irresponsible fans - England should quit UEFA and join CONCACAF Seriously, I think that England fans would be extremely prone to vindictiveness (i.e. increased hooliganism - sort of an "You're crying . . . I'll give you something to cry about" response) if UEFA overreacts against England. UEFA would be very foolish to rankle such a powerful member (and their fans) with a "death penalty" type punishment unless England fans behaved very egregiously.
I do see trouble ahead, I think they'll get most of them stopped before entry but there'll be a hardcore group of a couple of hundred or so which will do enough damage. I hope England are far away from where the Dutch and Germans play their games, but it's not just the hooligans starting fights with other country's supporters that is a worry, most of our nutters these days are just as happy beating up their own. Then there's the same journalists who bribed people to kick off trouble in Euro 2000, who will also be out there in Euro 2004 unchecked and keen to create a big story. Add hot summer weather and alcohol... it's not looking good.
A gloomy scenario, but one which could well be pretty accurate. Another possibility is that UEFA will threaten to kick us out but that we'll be eliminated anyway, saving them the trouble.
I don't think Uefa will ban England. I think Uefa are just hoping that their threats will make the supporters behave better.
UEFA are scum, and seem to have a chip on their shoulder about England. I remember at Euro 2000 when England got threatened with a ban because of that water cannon incident, yet the English hooligans weren't even the worst at that tournament. Yet we were the only ones threatened with being kicked out. Disgusting.
Re: Re: England will not win Euro 2004 Ditto. I do have a sinking feeling about what our 'foreign representatives' will get up to this summer. I think we can all safely say that something will happen.
I think it would pretty much stink if that happened. I'm no fan of England by a huge stretch, but this whole business of banning teams, punishing the players and the 99.9997% of fans who aren't hooligans is pretty rank. Perhaps they should ban Portugal for the failure of the civil authorities to maintain order. Perhaps they should ban some other team who have nothing to do with it, like St. Kitts and Nevis. But it seems like it would have to be really, really egregious for UEFA to do that. G.
This time round, I have decided to be optimistic. I think we stand a half decent chance, we have a squad that can draw with Portugal before Sven decides to have a laugh and sub everyone and this time if we avoid injuries we can go far. Owen and Beckham weren't 100% last time in 2002. No Gerrard, who's been in great form this season. Seaman has hung up his boots. The dodgy areas left for us are Goalkeeper and the ever troubling left wing. If fit, Campbell and Woodgate at the back will be a tough nut to crack. I don't really rate Terry, he makes a few good tackles and headers, but he usually just scores a dodgy winner or scores an own goal.
Two things: 1) They never have before. Banning orders are not made use of anywhere near as stringently as they should be by a government worried about its image in the eyes of the "civil rights" lobby. 2) At Euro 2000, some 75% of those arrested for violent disorder had no previous record of involvement in hooliganism. Many did not even fit the profiles developed through long and hard experience by our authorities. Reminds me of the time I was in Sweden for the European Championships and a massive riot kicked off about midnight following the game against the hosts. It was just England "fans" beating each other up in this square in Stockholm, with all the locals stood in a wide circle around the periphery, drinking, chatting and just spectating as this corner of their city got pulverised. Truly surreal.
This is misleading. Several of the friends I was with in Charleroi were arrested for absolutely no reason (other than the fact that they were English, which is apparently a serious crime in Belgium). They were later released without charge - I'm not sure if they were included in the official arrest figures or not but surely if indiscriminate arrests were taking place (as they certainly were) then statistics about the numbers of 'known' hooligans mean nothing. Without doubt there were plenty of wankers out in Brussels and Charleroi who were looking for trouble. But the Belgian police simply did not care whether they were arresting those responsible for trouble or even those who might potentially have caused trouble - if you were English, you were fair game.
Who is going to Euro 2004? Anyone of you? Many Portuguese believe there is one issue that organisers have failed to address and that is public safety . Over 3-2 millions people are expected to travel to Portugal for the tournament , but recently police and firefighters' cheifs caused a stir by announcing that they still lacked the planning , manpower and equipment to operate effectively at such a large event. The government has repeatedly stated that security is a priority and that the police and firefighters will be ready to face all eventualities. I hope so!
I'd love to go, but I am too young so I'm targeting Germany 2006. That's to watch the football, not hooliganise!
Is this the "it's not that were a crappy side, it's the hooligans fault" thread that is trying to find a proto-reason that England will fail miserably at Euro 2004? Is it? If it is, well this is just more fodder for the "why I hate the English" thread that I will be starting very soon.
not everyone was saying that, try looking at what i have said, it's more fodder for me to start a 'why i hate you' thread
Hey lads don't worry about this counterattack clown mouthing off in this thread. Here is one of his classic stupid posts from the USA mens forum. What a fool Trolls should leave this thread alone, wasn't started in World Rivalries for a reason.
I'm going to England-Croatia and if England finish second in the group then I'm going to the quarter final as well. I just hope it all goes off smoothly and that a few knobheads don't spoil it for everyone else
No, this is what is called a discussion. It requires insight and intelligence which means you, my hapless little plaything, are way out of your league. I would stick to your campaign for kick-ins and corner shootouts if I were you. That, and eating your crayons. Anything beyond that is beyond you. And believe me, the fact that you hate us and will therefore go to some lengths to avoid us is a considerable comfort to everyone who either is English or in any way associated with the English.
I hate to disagree but i think this counter fellow has a point.Its not the hooligans fault if England does bad, it would be the teams.With Ferdinand banned and Owen in poor form i cant see them getting past first round of the knowckout stage.Of course im not one to talk the boys from the states aren't exactly in great form.Although in a couple of years i could see a England USA match to be rather exciting.
oh and as for the hooligan problem im confident that the Portugese will be able to cope with any problems and no teams will be disqualified.
Sorry, did what I wrote in the original post come out in some language other than English on everyone else's browser? It's just I can't seem to see the same problem everyone else appears to be having with the obvious and uncomplicated point of my post. To me, it looks like regulation English, perhaps Bigsoccer's automatic English - Klingon translator is defaulted to 'on' in this thread and this thread only? I'll try again .... England will be eliminated from the tournament because of hooligan issues before they have the opportunity to win (or fail to win due to their own lack of quality and/or performance!) the thing. Just to be sure, allow me to make the point that this is not about the England team's capabilities, this is about the likely impact of our travelling circus of Neanderthals in Portugal.
It depends on what you mean by 'cope'. If it's "nip things in the bud by just targetting ringleaders, and trying to dissipate any agression before trouble starts" then yes, they can cope. If on the other hand, they decide to do a charleroi style "show of force" by bringing out the water cannon and riot police for the benefit of the world's media who'd occupied every single window overlooking Charleroi's main square, then the team will be home before the ink's dry of the newspapers' "hooligan shame" 15 page spreads. According to a Channel 4 documantary, ironically about the saturation coverage given by the media to English hooligans, the entire Charleroi riot lasted less than one minute and the square was peaceful five minutes later, yet it was portrayed in the papers and on TV as being virtually a day long running battle. There will be trouble, of that I have no doubt. All the threats about strict ticketting controls and possible breath tests make no difference as the hooligans who'll go over for a fight don't give a toss about not getting in. Hopefully I'll be wrong, but I do fear that UEFA would love to see us kicked out of the competition(to teach the hooligans a lesson) and the police will get in just right so there's the most impressive show of force (but not until well after the hooligans have been allowed to smash enough windows etc to make it look 'necessary') all played out before the grateful TV cameras. The sad thing is (if being kicked out wouldn't be sad enough) is that the hard-core hooligans would absolutely love it if England were kicked out - imagine being able to say you were so 'fearsome' that it resulted in the ultimate sanction. They'd probably see themselves as heroes.
100% correct. In fact the trouble involving England fans lasted around 5 minutes. The Germans subsequently continued to enter into an exchange of plastic chairs/bottles and fierce jets of water with the police for a further half hour or so until they were forced out of the square by a mounted police charge. Whilst we supped our Belgian beers and watched in amusement.