I wouldn't say we were toothless. We created chances (especially in the first half), and Defoe's goal should have stood. I think Welbeck had a good impact on the game when he came on, but I think Milner holds us back on the offensive side.
still think the current system is too reliant on a 19 year old still finding his feet and a plodder who seems to get picked regardless of form I think if we can stick with Ox we should be okay but something has to be done about Milner. I am so fed up with hearing about his "work rate" what difference does it make how many miles he runs if all he does is give straight back to the opposition not a good showing on our part but we got a decent point and hopefully will improve as this side begins to gel. As we saw with the subs- we have some talent and instead of trying to pass through teams (not really a good idea for us considering many of players cant pass to begin with) we actually have a player or two to run at and past opposing players- really made a difference imo lastly- the ref- really, really poor.
In games like this where it's going to be a bit tight that sort of decision can sink yer. One thing Roy Keane mentioned after the match was that he was impressed because we kept playing our football. Having a perfectly good goal chalked off and then going behind to a wonder strike it would have been easy for them to have started to hit it long and hope but, generally, we kept playing and put them under pressure. He's there purely to cover Glen Johnson who offers a lot going forward and is a good defender... well, on those occasions when he's not at the other end of the pitch
I thought it was a good performance, particuarly in the first half, with possession and patient build up play. When we got forward we often look threatening. I can't see why that Defoe goal was disallowed and Cleverly is such a poor finisher it threatens his place in the side. Typically though the English fans and press aren't patient enough to allow the England team to change, they want England to play like Spain or Brazil but get arsey if the ball is not moving forward all the time. They want hoof ball but just don't want anyone to notice it. Expectations are way too hig bordering on arrogance and I think England need a period in the wilderness to snap some people back to reality. We have a declining talent base and other countries are getting better. If we truely are to evolve as a footballing nation then the attitude of the coaches, players and press must change. This can only happen if it's led by the fans and given the response to tonight's display that's not anything that's going to happen any time soon. Frankly I'm disappointed (but not surprised). The goal was a bit of a suckerpunch and forced us to change, we should still have equalised sooer than we did though. Which brings me to another point; strikers. If there's anywhere we're suffering a huge lack of talent it's up front. We're going to miss several good chances each game because we don't have a natural finisher in the box. I fear this is going to become a feature of England games for the forseeable future. The last English striker of real potential to break through was Rooney 10 years ago, in the decade or so prior to that we'd had Owen, Fowler, Shearer, Cole, Wright etc.
What do you want people to say? that we're not going to qualify for the world cup? Prior to the Euro's you tipped us for a first round exit and only claim 1 point against Sweden. And anyone who disagreed with you was aggressively branded a "mug" . Everyone knows the system has to be completely torn down (thats for another thread) but you need to hear of this concept of calling things on a game-by-game basis . Maybe at the end of qualifying it would time to write a commentary like that ,but now?? I think not. I imagine you had that speech saved for a Euro disaster but had to keep it on ice until the first slightly dodgy game .
Nah, I think Prenn's right. It was the build from the back performance everyone was clamoring for. And then when they don't roll over a decent team like Ukraine playing that way people get arsey.
During the game I observed that the midfield didnt offer themselves for passes when Jagielka and Lescott had the ball. Hence them making bad passing decisions which hampered our play. People are allowed to make tactical observations rather than just saying "this is shit" . The defence saw alot of the ball and didnt get any midfield support because lampard and cleverly didnt do the roles they were supposed to . Oxlade Chamberlain was also non existant in the game. I thought we actually looked like scoring when Sturridge came on and replaced him . I like to comment purely on a tactical basis.
Twisting my words? Is that seriously the best you can do? I mean really? Your whole argument is based on misrepresenting what I said? Anyway, for the looks of it I'm one of the few not complaining about the game last night. If anything I thought Ukraine were the fortunate side. Still you'd prefer it if I ganged up on your scapegoat of the month wouldn't you? Milner still isn't it? Before that SWP. I wonder who'll be next?
So you missed that whenever one of our midfield players moved for the ball they were tightly marked by the Ukrainian team? They were showing for the ball and when they couldn't go anywhere we played it back and kept possession.
I call games like I see it. Game by game . If I believe something is good I will say it.I dont criticise something for the hell of it. Prior to the Euro's I never made a prediction because I wanted to see how we would play. Rather than just say "we will get knocked out in the first round ,not win a game and play shit" .
The Ukraine have a pretty decent midfield but their defence is nothing special at all. Hence us having plenty of chances when we filtered the ball into the right area's . I correctly predicted the exact players who would give us the most problems before kick off. When you have 3 central midfield options ,one or two of those players have to make themselves available for the pass and too many times they didnt do that. The midfield failed for large chunks of the match. We could have done with Carrick in there to sit deeper .
In this game it actually made more sense for us to focus on direct/wide passing to bypass their packed narrow formation. As soon as sturridge came on we just carved up their system. We were never going to pass through them . I hope Hodgson has learned from this game for the away game.
I thought we shoud of subbed cleverly for carrick which would of allowed gerrard/lampard to play the "number 10". I'd much rather see Walker at right back and put johnson on the wing in Milners place, he constatly gave their left back a problem but he isn't a RB. Also a point about Lescott, for their goal he manages to hit the ball to the Ukrainian player whos rolling over on the floor not even looking at the ball and he was far too slow at moving the ball from the back.
I find it very odd that I've not heard anyone anywhere who thinks that Lennon should have been called up to the squad? Milner should never be picked for England - he's just a plodder, the media's favourite Walcott was injured and so Roy brings in Sterling who has only just been selected for the u19s (that lost 3-1 last week). I was wondering how long the pundits and fans would hold back having a go at Chamberlain when he played badly - seems the honeymoon is over. And Cleverley seemed to be having an anxiety attack out there.
I don't think anyone understand what Milner is in the team for tbh. Sturridge is a great player to come on when you are having trouble breaking down a team, he is tricky and seems to create chances, he just needs to be less selfish though. I think we were missing too many players though, having Young/Johnson available would have given us more penetration.
Let's be honest Sinner, a good summary of the game would be: England miss loads of chances and Ukraine score a worldy. We didn't get the result we wanted, it happens.
Imo the problem was our midfielders are incapable of playing well without 5 yards of space around them, nothing incisive, nothing precise to cut through our opponents. Cleverley was poor as well imo, didnt take his chances and his link up play was a bit, erratic. I agree sturridge made a big difference
Ukraine missed at least 3 prime chances too. But im not the one writing the obituary of English football over this result. Leave that to the people who have rock bottom expectations for every game. I just call each game individually .
I doubt many teams could just slice through a team setup like Ukraine where so we had to adapt. Playing direct wide passes to Sturridge opened them up. Carrick could have delivered the type of passes we needed to open them up earlier.
Or...we could do what we tried to do, and mix it up by sometimes going wide and sometimes trying to go through the middle. The fact is though, we didn't play great (not a great shock with the players we have), but at least they tried to maintain possession and created chances by mixing it up a bit. Much prefer that to the dross I saw at the Euros.
I think lampard and gerrard are just not the type of players to build a short passing system around, the slowness and predictability was inevitable. Obviously we all want to see a more skilled and technically astute style of play but we dont have the players yet, but i am glad to see it is at least on the agenda, it looks like wilshere will be back soon and he could make a difference to this system, and despite his awful euros rooney could also give the team another dimension
My opinion is that the team selection was just wrong. We beat Moldova 5-0 but that was always going to be a pretty easy game in all honesty.. We were playing a much better team and beforehand Hodgson should have known that they would be difficult to break down and hit us on the counter, it's what most teams apart from the top ones will do at Wembley. Therefore instead of just playing the same team, we should have deployed different players who are better suited to a patient and incisive attacking game. Gerrard, Milner, Defoe are all suited to fast pace games. Cleverley is not suited to this 'support role' that Hodgson seems to want him to play, he would have been better off in a deep lying role. I would have picked Carrick for this game as well as he is the one player apart from Wilshere and Scholes who is comfortable in possession. I still don't know how the feck Milner keeps making the team though.. his link up play is poor, his range of passing is poor and I noticed quite a few times that when he gets the ball he tends to just launch it down the line..