England Senior Team General Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'England' started by BarryfromEastenders, Jul 11, 2018.

  1. ChristianSur

    ChristianSur Member+

    May 5, 2015
    Club:
    Sheffield Wednesday FC
    If they have any sense, they'll have discussed the significant possibility that one of these camps will be cancelled, leaving us with very few games left before next summer. Once they've gone through the massive undertaking of setting up a biosecure camp, they HAVE to cram as much as they can into it. It would be beyond remiss not to.
     
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  2. Placid Casual

    Placid Casual Member+

    Apr 2, 2004
    Bentley's Roof
    Brilliant.


     
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  3. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Just had to delete and post again after reading it! Is it me or is he really blaming Foden and Greenwood for his awful tactics and team selection last night?
     
  4. Placid Casual

    Placid Casual Member+

    Apr 2, 2004
    Bentley's Roof

    Yes he is
     
  5. Gaz811

    Gaz811 Member

    Everton FC
    England
    Oct 15, 2018
    The amount of pullouts for the November one will be in double figures.
     
  6. sharpovic

    sharpovic Member+

    May 20, 2010
    He shouldn’t be, there’s a reason ppl ask him about Grealish, and that’s because he’s the most creative player we have, it’s not rocket science
     
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  7. TopBanana10

    TopBanana10 Member+

    Millwall
    England
    Sep 8, 2018
    It would actually be really great if Chelsea buy Rice and play him as a LCB. Then we can all stop pretending that he’s a DM.
     
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  8. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    #10483 BarryfromEastenders, Sep 10, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2020
    From the Independent article above about why Southgate switched to the ultra defensive system -

    Southgate: "If we’d been lightweight and wide open and looked a mess, we could have left here with a completely different sort of outcome, and everybody pointing at yesterday (Foden/Greenwood issue) as the cause of it"

    We’ve looked wide open a lot against teams that attack us in Southgate’s 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1. Remember Rice, Henderson and Barkley against Kosovo at home?

    Southgate always seems adamant that it’s the players that can’t play or struggle in certain systems. But there is no thought for the way he tries to play in that system. Or the way he positions players in the systems. Or the personnel he puts into that system.

    He always goes on about the ‘8’s’ in his 4-3-3 system. Do we need two 8’s? Southgate’s ‘8’s’ play so high up we are easy to counter on and it makes the team very open. It largely leaves the DM isolated and there is a real lack of adaptability in-game.

    In the Nations League game against Holland they were interchanging roles and moving around a lot in midfield. Whereas we had static specific role that were easily overwhelmed. That is before you even get into critiquing Rice or anyone else’s qualities in their appointed roles.

    Even the three at the back systems he implements are very rigid and unadaptable. This was evidenced during the WC run and most obviously after. Now are we going back to it because of the limitations of our coach or because we have to do so because of the player pool available atm? I think it’s glaringly because of our coaches limitations.
     
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  9. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Fact is, he’s tactically miles behind

    he was a poor club manager, he did well in a rigid defensive system in Russia with a piss easy draw

    We should be looking to use our creative players and youthful attackers with pace to overload sides

    not counter them in a 5atb
     
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  10. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    Exactly... his approach reminds me of Roy Hodgson ..
     
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  11. roverman

    roverman Member+

    Dec 22, 2001
    Complete opposites in many aspects
     
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  12. AJ123

    AJ123 Member

    Man Utd
    England
    Feb 17, 2018
    I think what he’s trying to say is that because of all the negativity around the squad with Maguire, Foden and Greenwood he didn’t want to play an open game because heads weren’t right and any bad defeat would have compounded the negativity around the side in the press.

    I’ll reserve judgement given just how strange that break was with the games effectively being pre-season ones and all the terrible publicity around the camp.

    It could be the case that he wanted to experiment with defensive setups, are we all convinced on here that we can go toe to toe with any side for 90 minutes?

    He’ll probably see 4 points from two away games as being decent work, all things considered.

    As for the extra friendlies, the Nations League doesn’t really give chances for experimentation with new call ups etc. Either international break may be called off too if things go wrong with Covid so take as many minutes we can.
     
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  13. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    Both very safe ( boring ) ?
     
  14. RobTheFool

    RobTheFool Member+

    Apr 19, 2008
    London, England
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Honestly I wish someone would say all this stuff to him. It seems he gets off way too lightly saying ridiculous stuff like this.

    Some of his thinking is Hodgson esque and I just don’t get it, I liked how he managed to get us through the WC games but he’s gone full on crazy since then. Did he not pay attention when we dominated Spain away or something?
     
  15. RobTheFool

    RobTheFool Member+

    Apr 19, 2008
    London, England
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I think there’s no excuses here. He is the only one who seems to have this opinion and the focus should be on winning and playing well, not pandering to the media in case of a bad result. I think it’s pretty sad if he is worried that we will be too open against Denmark. If that is the case what is the point in even going to what is effectively a home tournament next year! Absolutely mad this guy has become.
     
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  16. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    We have technical and fast players high up and foden and Graelish can keep the ball

    use a single pivot vs poor sides and add winks who can drop deep for one vs better sides

    use hendersonas the runner and you have a very mobile midfield
     
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  17. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    #10492 BarryfromEastenders, Sep 10, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2020
    Hodgson was told to change the way his teams have always played as England coach after that Ukraine away game.

    Southgate is trying to play a way he has never had any record of being successful at.

    We need to hire a coach who has a track record of playing a certain way and back him. Otherwise it never looks right and is a bit amateurish.
     
  18. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    Then create a system that at least provides us with an attacking threat. Overloading with defensive options and offering next to nothing offensively for 75+ mins isn’t much of a long term plan. It might be for the Liechtenstein coach.
     
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  19. AJ123

    AJ123 Member

    Man Utd
    England
    Feb 17, 2018
    I think the point is that it isn’t a long term plan.
     
  20. roverman

    roverman Member+

    Dec 22, 2001
    Does anyone else think if Bellingham starts tearing up the Bundesliga early on he might be in contention for a full call up in the next squad or the one in November? Could be the answer to the holding role. France capped camavinga, while he's 17. Or is Bellingham not the type of player we are missing. Who else do you guys think might be in contention? Saka? White? Odoi
     
  21. Jenks

    Jenks Member+

    Feb 16, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
    He's played more as an #8.
     
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  22. Rabbi Keane

    Rabbi Keane Member

    Aug 13, 2003
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    The planning from Southgate is shocking. We had no left back for a flat 4, but there were call up alternatives for left wing backs. Just point toward 352 being a last day decision from a clueless unprepared manager
     
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  23. sharpovic

    sharpovic Member+

    May 20, 2010
    Not for me. Hodgson was more progressive and much better tactically. Southgate better at communicating, but this has limits : the press isn't in love anymore
     
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  24. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    Fair comments


    I just think of them both being rather cautious...
     
  25. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Both are overly negative defenders merchants
     

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