England Senior National Team General Discussion Thread

Its not just the England players. The Chelsea and Spurs keepers aren't English..

 

If they all get knocked out it'll be good for England, Well rested for the world cup.

 

That's what I'm hoping for. I can't stand the Premier League. It's such an elitist league where everyone is singing its praises to the hilt. I watch more la liga games and Bundesliga games than epl ones

 

Apart from the odd game the PL has been poor this year. The players have clearly been over coached and can't think for themselves. Hopefully the English players can play with a bit more freedom in the WC. I think with the players that look like they will start that'll be the case. The only one I'm a bit worried about is Rice.

 

And saka

 

The Prem had six teams qualifying for the last 16 of this seasons European Cup

And we're now looking at probably one getting through to the Qtr Finals

So for everyone out there who lap it up, everytime our discourse talks up this massive gap in quality, between the Prem and the other big four; Im genuinely curious what their excuses are going to be?

 

Clairefontaine and St George's Park are not the same thing, they're very different in fact.

Other countries keep trying to copy the French Clairefontaine model and they never could (successfully). Scotland for example tried it for years and then recently scrapped it.

It's a huge myth that France's success comes from Clairefontaine, it doesn't. And that's why every country who tries to emulate French player output by copying Clairefontaine never works

 

One of the excuse's would be 2 of the teams are in the bottom half of the PL.

 

Yeah just meant to say they look less robotic and seem to enjoy their game more when playing for England. Don't know about the other players in their national teams

 

That being " This shows the strength of the Premier League"

It's not been fun to watch this season. I spend more time watching Bundesliga and Bundesliga 2.

Sure Bayern running away with it is annoying but the average game is more entertaining it seems.

 

I wouldn't say they can't think for themselves, but I don't think anyone can convince me that they aren't being constrained (and in some cases developmentally hampered) by the environment they play in. It's a big worry for the (seemingly) strong generation of players we've got coming through.

It's easy for someone look at Foden or Saka in 2026 and just say "well, I guess they aren't as good as we thought they were", rather than engage with the idea of whether or not things could've been a little bit different.

Is it a coincidence that Saka's effectiveness has dipped as Arteta has become more passive and rigid? Is Eze just not that good? Is it a coincidence that Palmer (by a mile) played his best football under a fluid and attacking manager in Pochettino, and has seen a dip in performances under more rigid and control-obsessed managers? Could Foden's career have been different if he'd played under a manager who embraced the relentless forward-oriented, risk-heavy nature he had as a youth player? Rather than a manager who’s obsessed with his players retaining possession?

These are things we can't ultimately prove, but I think it's naive to think that managers who micromanage players, who restrict where and when they can play, who emphasise conservatism and risk-aversion won't have a negative effect on these some of these players to varying degrees. It's why I find it really hard to imagine Max Dowman ever hitting his ceiling if he spends most of his career playing under Arteta - unless Arteta fundamentally changes as a coach.

It's just extra frustrating when you see other countries’ youngsters being given the freedom and the license to express themselves, to develop into exciting players with tonnes of X-factor, while ours are shoved out to the wing and told to stay there, or end up sitting in the middle of the pitch perpetually recycling the ball.

 

I agree with you. It was just a tongue in cheek reply.

 

I think the obsession with stats is part of the problem. No one shoots from distance anymore because its low xg. Everyone is doing the same thing so everyone knows how to play againest it.

 

I know. I was responding in kind

 

The Premier League is on average (and esp in the lower teams), dramatically more technical now than it was, say 20yrs ago.

But the sterile direction football is going in, is happening everywhere. It's not just here.

But that also means whatever gap in quality there is between the big leagues is not that wide. And it never was, Sky Sports and the wider media have carried out the biggest psyop in football by convincing everyone that the PL is.

Large chunks of the discourse across this country has now 'automated' the belief that being a solid Premier League player makes them elite international class. Then every two years when international tournaments disprove this, they revert back to their Cognitive dissonance, just in time for the kickoff of the new PL season, then the cycle just repeats.

 

Henry Winter has posted saying a winter break is needed to improve the PL teams and predictably most of the comments want International football to be what is cut to fit it in,

Tuchel has to work hard to get the Nations League respected next season.


Arsenal will consider a bid for Newcastle and England full-back Tino Livramento this summer, with the 23-year-old yet to show willingness to extend his contract beyond 2028. (Telegraph - subscription required).

 

People always read too much into a set of results like this. There is a big gap between the leagues currently, at least in relative historical terms. There are teams in the 4 leagues that are close to the top of the Premier League in terms of quality, however. It just so happens that in this round of games the English sides were drawn against most of those sides - PSG, Barca, Real Madrid and Atletico(to slightly lesser extent). That said, Newcastle were the better side against Barca and Chelsea's result was a bit of a freak 0.87 - 1.58xG and 2 big chances to 4 in Chelsea's favour but they lose 5-2 is not something you see often.

I think that Liverpool and Arsenal will go through and I wouldn't be surprised to see City or Chelsea go through as well, we've seen big reversals in second legs between big sides in the recent past.

Where the English league's strength really lies is in the depth, which is why we've seen half of the Conference League titles won by English sides so far and an all English Europa League final last year. Now that there's no relegation from the CL I'd expect the PL to be the most represented league in the EL Finals over the next 5 years (that means that I think it probably will happen, not that it definitely will happen).

The gap isn't as big as some make out but it is there.

 

I actually don't think this is true. Purely in terms of playing style, other league's have gone in a more positive direction. The Premier League is a regressive outlier.

 

I'm of the opinion that football has gone in a direction (across everywhere) where players who show high improvisation are being evermore marginalised in favour of 'system cohesion'. modern coaches increasingly interpret the above as a trade-off, where one must be sacrificed for the other and increasingly choosing the latter

In terms of other leagues pivoting in a more positive direction. That shouldn't surprise anyone. England always lags behind in pivotal football ideas. We just repeat the same cycle of importing the latest innovation via coaches/players with Premier League money. We still don't have the footballing culture in this country to innovate new footballing ideas (organic to our ecosystem) which we export to other countries, its almost always the other way round.

Although there have been some positives in English football. We've invested heavy in pro academy infrastructure and actioned major reforms in underage development which since 2012, is now bearing fruit. But notice how any positives in English football have all been institutional (investment) driven; St Georges Park, EPPP, Future Fit etc.
However in terms of footballing culture, we've honestly been a backwater since the 80's and just do not seem able to catch up.

 

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Konsa, Sancho, Rogers and Watkins start for Aston Vila. Wright, Mings, Elliott and Abraham are on the bench.

 

World class footwork from rogers. Shame there's never any end product from him

 

I think rogers is massively overrated

 

Watkins scores for Villa