England Senior National Team General Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'England' started by BarryfromEastenders, Jul 15, 2024.

  1. AJ123

    AJ123 Member+

    Man Utd
    England
    Feb 17, 2018
    Casemiro?

    The devil is in the detail, the tweet shows % of passes made that are line-breaking rather than total line-breaking passes. Wharton is quite a low volume passer averaging 39 per game while Rodri, as an example, is a high volume passer averaging 72 per game. This means that Rodri actually makes more line-breaking passes per game on average with 11 to Wharton's 9.

    Palace's tactics are a big reason why is top of that list. His job is to break-up play and facilitate quick transitions with those line-breaking passes. Rodri, on the other hand, is tasked with dominating the ball and also making a high number of line-breaking passes.

    I'm still wondering how Wharton will fare in different tactical set-ups, is he adaptable or a niche specialist? It's an interesting idea to play him higher up as I'm not sure he has the meter to play in a similar way to Rodri.

    This was one of the assists of the season though

     
  2. Mephisto

    Mephisto Member

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Jan 22, 2026
    Russia, Dagestan
    Comparing Anderson to Zubimendi is a straight-up crime. Anderson is light years ahead. Just look at the teams they play for and the amount of work Anderson puts in all over the pitch. Honestly, if you asked him, he’d probably kill it in goal too.
    Playing for a dominant side like Arsenal is a completely different story from playing for Forest. I’ve seen Zubimendi crumble under pressure multiple times now. Aside from his jumping and being two-footed, he shows nothing special. He basically jogs around the whole match while Rice does all the dirty work for him. Against City, Gibbs-White and Anderson looked like they were possessed by Xavi and Iniesta.
     
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  3. horrisengleton

    horrisengleton Member+

    Arsenal
    England
    Jul 18, 2023
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I think he's somewhere in between. I think he can play for a top team in roles that are different to what he currently plays at Palace, but I don't think he could play for any team and in any setup.

    I think there's a limit on how much a team's system can amplify a player's on-ball quality or we'd probably see more moments of quality from the likes of Will Hughes and Kamada when Wharton isn't there, but I do think Palace's system helps Wharton a hell of a lot defensively.

    They play as a deep, compact block the majority of the time so he doesn't have to manage space as often, but when he does you can see he's quite easy to play through. I think if he played as a 6 for someone like Liverpool now, he'd struggle a lot.

    He's obviously still young and ultimately he may still be mouldable into a few different roles if he gets his head down and works on his deficiencies. I don't think he has any physical/athletic issues that will disadvantage him.

    It just seems fairly blatant that his biggest skill is his eye for a pass and that very much translates to creative passing in the final third. He uses both feet, has absolutely no angle bias and is pretty good in small spaces for someone as gangly as he is. We haven't seen it at Palace yet but there's also solid goalscoring potential in there. He's a pretty good shooter/finisher when he actually unleashes, he just doesn't shoot very often.

    Not that I think he's actually that similar to him, but I think he's currently closer to someone like Bruno Fernandes in terms of skillset than he is to Rodri.
     
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  4. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
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  5. Catenaccio88

    Catenaccio88 Member

    England
    Sep 23, 2023
    Wharton still doesn't convince me he can play that deep 6 role for England against elite opposition. He's not a better option than Rice

    I really think we should call up James Garner in the final friendlies window before the WC

    He's been brilliant for Everton and deserves a chance
     
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  6. roverman

    roverman Member+

    Dec 22, 2001
    Anderson should start against elite nations. Wharton can make an impact off the bench
     
  7. roverman

    roverman Member+

    Dec 22, 2001
    James garner is a bit of a maverick in midfield. He's kind of like the sheriff
     
  8. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    Garner probably only gets in if Jordan Henderson is dropped. He will pretty much be fighting for that off the bench deeper 8 role that Rice plays from the start.

    Our best options at the six role at this point are Elliot Anderson and Reece James imo. Not ideal but can’t see any other logical or realistic alternatives at this point.

    We will have a lot of attacking or creative 10’s and 8’s which is why I think Tuchel was attempting the three at the back with the ball. Then James comes into midfield and we get a creative 8 in central areas. That could be Wharton, Eze, Foden etc.
     
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  9. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    It will be interesting to see if the club schedule has an effect on the next squad. Everton only have two games in the run up to the next squad. Others in Europe have as many as five.

    Might give uncapped options a chance with fitness pull outs. Or it might go the other way and limit opportunities to impress in the run up to squad selection.
     
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  10. AJ123

    AJ123 Member+

    Man Utd
    England
    Feb 17, 2018
    Wharton's pass completion is 79% in the Premier League which is very low, probably in the lowest 3% for midfielders. He plays a very high risk game trying to find those line-breaking passes with as few touches as possible. I was disappointed when he played for England last time because he just seemed to be playing like he does at Palace. I don't think that is going to be net-positive in an end of season World Cup with high heat and high altitude. We'll need to retain possession for long periods. Assuming Anderson and Rice start I think Garner coming off the bench with his energy and ball winning abilities is more suited for the conditions.

    I hope Garner is called up in the next break so we can at least get a look at him in this England side.
     
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  11. Catenaccio88

    Catenaccio88 Member

    England
    Sep 23, 2023
    #19661 Catenaccio88, Mar 6, 2026
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2026
    I agree. I look at him play and he doesn't control games well enough yet. His defensive stats are very average and he gives the ball away too cheaply with hollywood passes, almost like a young Steven Gerrard, which isn't really what England need in chaotic tournament conditions.

    Wharton has only turned 22 so he's still got time. But he's not yet ready for the CM role. Even Mainoo is better suited than him in CM for England

    its a shame because Wharton's the profile of midfielder England are often missing, maybe its too early for him
     
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  12. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
  13. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    I don’t think they will be many pull outs.Tuchel has made it clear to players he expects attendance,

    I think Tuchel has probably settled on who he is calling up by now baring anyone who needs replacing due to getting injured in the next fortnight. He seems a manager who has everything worked out well in advance,
     
  14. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    Jones assist in FA Cup.
     
  15. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    He scored as well didn’t he? Not seen the game but according to my app he scored.
     
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  16. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    Yeah he did later on.
     
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  17. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    Real Madrid are hoping Jude is back before the international break. Wonder if he will the get selected. The media will be like what it was in the autumn if he is back and is not in the squad.
     
  18. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
     
  19. roverman

    roverman Member+

    Dec 22, 2001
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c4gjxp9x8klo

    What a load of twaddle. Only managers who are insecure say things like this. Because they know they are a few bad results away from the sack. They just try to curry favour with the players. He'll never be at Kane's or haaland's level
     
  20. andals

    andals Member

    Jun 13, 2015
    good comment here, AJ.

    agree on all points.

    separately: the data point provided (79% pass completion) is almost one that should be applauded given how he plays. but any % that shows up is a byproduct of how a team is set up to play. if you are a Manchester City (high possession, teams may defend in a low block against you) your stats will be much prettier than a mid-table team with a less "robust" identity that has to work their way up the pitch. making this all up, of course, but my point is more around the complete subjectivity of stats like this. a counter argument might be, well, if he's good enough - or "world class capable" - then his stats should be higher regardless.
     
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  21. horrisengleton

    horrisengleton Member+

    Arsenal
    England
    Jul 18, 2023
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    The Curtis Jones situation really irks me. I feel like it's held against him that he doesn't start every week for Liverpool and that's why he hasn't been getting picked, despite the fact other options wouldn't even make the bench for Liverpool.

    The majority of time he gets minutes for Liverpool he performs very well, often on very big stages and often against top opponents. Maybe I'm overrating him but personally, I think Slot underutilises him a lot and other managers would use him far more.

    We all seem to agree that keeping the ball is going to be essential this summer, so it would be entirely self defeating to leave Jones out imo. Most other options offer a fraction of what he does on the ball and he's arguably the closest thing we have to a controller.
     
  22. Jenks

    Jenks Member+

    Feb 16, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
    I don't think Tuchel wants to play that way, and that's why so much has been made of starters and finishers. I think the club probably wants rid of Jones for pure profit, so Slot it doing their bidding by ushering him our like he did Elliott and Quansah.
     
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  23. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    Manchester City are sure to offer England international Phil Foden a new contract when his current one expires at the end of next season, but negotiations will not be easy given the 25-year-old midfielder's inconsistent form. (The Athletic - subscription required), external

    England midfielder Mason Mount, 27, has no intention of forcing an exit from Manchester United this summer. (Football Insider)

    Manchester United are reportedly hopeful of landing big money from the sales of Rasmus Hojlund and Marcus Rashford in the summer as they look to land targets including Nottingham Forest midfielder Elliot Anderson and RB Leipzig star Yan Diomande - The Express

    Jude Bellingham will miss the first leg of the Real Madrid Champions League last-16 tie against Manchester City as the midfielder continues to recover from a hamstring injury - The Athletic

    Harry Kane missed Bayern Munich's trip to Borussia Monchengladbach on Friday, giving him one less game to break Robert Lewandowski's goalscoring record - The Mirror.

    England's World Cup clash with Ghana has been thrown into chaos after the cost of hosting was "miscalculated" - The Sun



    Tuchel just seems to be committed to enforcing playing time rules on some players.
     
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  24. Looks like Livramento will be back maybe today, but very soon if not?
    Coin toss between Hall and Shaw. I've gone for the experience.
    If we're just taking 4 CBs, I'd go with Maguire over Burn, but will Burn's left-footedness win the day for Tuchel? But is he likely to take 5 especially with Stones doubts?
    I don't think he'll take a third striker - but can't fully decide if he'll go with Madueke or Foden - or that 5th CB?
    Just wonder if he'd want the flexibility of that other attacking option, even ahead of a 5th CM (Mainoo?) too?

    As of now, I'd take a shot at at a 26 of:


    GK:
    Pickford, Henderson, Trafford

    FB:
    James, Livramento, O’Reilly, Shaw

    CB:
    Guehi, Konsa, Stones, Burn, Maguire

    CM:
    Rice, Anderson, Henderson, Wharton, Mainoo

    AM/W:
    Saka, Bellingham, Palmer, Rogers, Gordon, Rashford, Madueke

    ST:
    Kane, Watkins


    Foden, Bowen, Eze, Hall the very unlucky omissions?

    I think he'd probably go for....the 5th CB and maybe....Madueke in the last 2 spots.
    Unless Foden explodes in the next 2 months. I didn't really foresee an England squad without him, but it does look a real possibility?
     
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  25. roverman

    roverman Member+

    Dec 22, 2001
    I'd drop Henderson and bring in hall as o'reilly can also play midfield
     

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