England Senior National Team General Discussion Thread

It always seems to me that the managers of England are trying to shoehorn in all our 'best' players which inevitably means players playing out of position or the team being unbalanced - just pick a system and then play the best players we have for each position and we'll win most games - and all our games in international league division 2!.....it ain't rocket science!

 

It looked like the squad is riddled with tensions as well. They don’t look as close together as they did from 2018-2022.

 

Even he would struggle if the FA started to interfere as the media pressure would also be on them for snubbing English candidates,

 

I'm still struggling to get over how bad that was last night, I've never seen such an unbalanced team selected and played out exactly how it looked like it could do. It was the sort of selection Garth Crooks makes for his team of the week.

All those players wanting to get into the same spaces, 2 full backs who wanted to play centrally too - Foden and Palmer as 8s, I could go on.

We were very poor in transition vs Finland and Teemu Pukki got in a couple of times, so against a better team we elected to play just one CM and see how that worked. We were so, so open - so many straight balls just cutting us wide open.

I was excited to see what Carsley could do, but feared that people got a bit excited after first break when he had easy decisions to make as didn't have to leave big players on the bench - but we've not got time for him to work this out and develop as a manager, the stakes are too high.

It's genuinely the worst English performance since Iceland in Euro 2016 in a competitive game, we had that one Nations League aberration vs Hungary at Molineux but that was with a load of players not available and just got done on the break whilst trying to chase the game.

For me, Carsley has to make brave personnel decisions over the next 3 games, and show that he has learned instantly that you can't just pick your best players and hope they work. Get some orthodox players in their roles, use your stars as subs and go from there.

Assuming Saka is out, I'd be happy with something like

Pickford

Alexander-Arnold
Stones
Guehi
Colwill

Rice
Jones

Palmer
Bellingham
Gordon

Watkins

 

I'd definitely have kane on Sunday in front of Watkins

 

Hmm not convinced on that!

 

Liverpool have identified Bayer Leverkusen's Dutch 23-year-old Jeremie Frimpong, Monaco's Brazilian 23-year-old Vanderson and Fiorentina's Italian 20-year-old Michael Kayode as potential targets should they lose right-back Trent Alexander-Arnold. (Caught Offside), external

However, Liverpool are making some progress in their contract negotiations with England international Alexander-Arnold, 26. (Football Insider)

Newcastle are set to be without Kieran Trippier for at least a few weeks. (Daily Mail)

Everton skipper James Tarkowski admits he would have struggled to cope with all the pressure at Goodison Park if he was younger. (Daily Mirror)

Trent Alexander-Arnold says he does not want to be remembered as "the player who only won trophies when he was young". (The Athletic)

 

Time seems to have glossed over that game against Hungary at Molineux as one where England didn't actually play badly, they just had a few absentees and got outplayed a few times at the end, no big deal.
Seriously, that team had Kane, Bellingham, Saka, Stones, Walker starting, Sterling, Foden and Maguire coming on as substitutes, surely a team like that can't be beaten by anyone by 4 goals at home, let alone such an average side. I remember that game as being one in which England players lost a series of duels against opponents who train in the formidable Hungarian NB1 week in, week out. Moreover, as I said, the team was in a deep hole, with successive poor performances, no wonder Southgate seemed to have lost the dressing room.
Now it's a different story. Obviously, if they fail to win in Helsinki, that's it for Carsley, but for now we're talking about one bad game. I'm afraid if not, we'll get one of those egotistical monsters of the Mourinho, Tuchel variety (Guardiola I think has more sense and more to lose) and the Capello MK2 era will come.

 

One thing that doesn’t help, is that we seem to only produce certain profiles these days. I said this back in the summer. We need to get over this current obsession with producing attacking midfielders and technical full backs and get back to producing, in bulk, players who can actually play down the spine of the team. I want to see us start producing GKs, CBs, centre forwards, and proper 6s and 8s again. This will actually address issues we have and help raise the floor and ceiling of the side.

This is also why I can’t get excited about the likes of Nwaneri, Moore, Tyrique George, Lacey, MLS etc coming through. It’s just more of the same types of player we have been producing en masse for the last decade. Where are the Seaman’s, Terry’s, Carrick’s, Shearer’s? Obviously it’s difficult to find players of that exact quality, but I am talking about profiles.

 

And that’s harder than it seems - the current system of relying on club academies has brought many benefits but it doesn’t help solve those issues,

 

To add to the above, we look like a really soft side yesterday, one that can be bullied. There’s only really Bellingham and Rice who you think of as players who are physically and mentally dominant profiles. Even Stones, I don’t think of as being someone that physically bullies his opponents. When I think of City defenders, I think more of Ake, Dias and Akanji for that role. You then have lightweight fullbacks in Lewis and Trent, diminutive players in Saka and Foden, whilst Palmer, although fairly tall, is quite gangly. We also saw at the weekend that he’s not someone that likes to engage in scraps when he stayed out of the altercation against Forest.

I am not saying every player needs to be a warrior type profile physically and mentally, but I definitely feel you need more than we had out there yesterday to get you through games when you are not playing well.

 

Branthwaite is of the warrior type but who else? Gallagher maybe? Outside of the squad someone like Maguire? Fringe options like Dunk, Tarkowski and Kilman? Jones and Gomes are not warrior types at all.

 

The whole world struggles to produce 6s and strikers in bulk. Even then I think we're largely in a transitional phase with our strikers, plenty of very promising ones in the youth system - Wheatley, Mhueka, Tyjon, Delap etc.

I don't think 8s are an issue personally. Bellingham is probably the best in the world, then coming through you've got players like Archie Gray, Chukwuemeka, & Lewis Miley as power box-to-box profiles. Ditto Myles Lewis-Skelly, who is very much a powerful 8.

6 could be a bit of an issue, but in my life that's not a profile we've ever produced in bulk. Carrick's the only world-class English 6 I've seen in my lifetime. Wharton has all the talent to do it but is in a tough position at present, then there's the likes of Morton and Hackney, who definitely have potential. Jacob Wright too if you want to go younger.

Someone said last night we're in a bit of a transitional phase between teams and that's probably somewhat true. Stalwarts of the last 6 years are ageing out and many of our top talents are still developing at the elite level - Colwill, Palmer, Mainoo. You can see that in our CB options, many of whom are extremely promising but still very young.

I'll admit GK is an issue though. We have promising keepers coming through but it's hard to tell if any of them will or could make the very elite level.

This is very strue. Arne Slot said after Liverpool played Ipswich at the start of the season that the team that wins all its duels usually wins the game. Last night was a perfect example of this.

Colwill is excellent in duels, so is Guehi, so is Branthwaite. Mainoo is also extremely strong in duels, despite getting little credit for that side of his game.

Bellingham needs to be a midfielder, pushing him up as a false 9/second striker deprives the team of so much of what he does both on and off the ball. Having Lewis, Foden, Palmer and to a lesser degree Stones all in the same XI took away a lot of our ability to physically contest the game.

 

You have to include Trent in that too, on their first goal the scorer dribbled through Palmer and Trent like they weren't there. OK it isn't Palmer's position but Trent is really weak in one on ones, at least he was last night. We just have to say that having Palmer covering for a MIA Trent all night was a bananas idea.

 

You’re going too far mate, give it a rest.

 

He was weak last night but so were most. He's not a great dueller but he has a reputation for being a poor one when statistically he's actually pretty decent.

Trent was also one of the few who actually did stuff with the ball. He got us in behind the opposition defence with his passes from deep three or four times. Then there was the big chance he created for Gordon. He's legitimately worth building around in that area of the pitch imo because he almost always produces moments, even on a bad day.

Putting Palmer there was a mad move though. In reality we might need someone on that side who can stop transitions well. Rice is the obvious answer but we'd need a 6.

I actually think if you wanna go that attacking it'd be worth trying Saka in that RCM role too. He's a defensive workhorse and very effective at it. I've always thought he'd be better in a more half space role than out on the wing. Palmer RW and Saka RCM.

 

I've got to say, after last night's chaotic shambles, I'm edging more towards installing a manager who is more defensive minded and focused on giving our attacking talent a solid platform on which to perform. More Emery rather than Pep, say. Or even Potter rather than Howe.

The PL has become the most entertaining in the world because, in general, the defences aren't up there with some of the best on the continent. So when we get to the international arena under a fledgling manager, it shouldn't be any wonder that we come a cropper. Let's learn from this Greek fiasco and build again from the back.

 

I'm going put for a meal Sunday to commemorate the 1 year anniversary of my mums death. So I'll probably miss the first half. I hope England give me/us something to cheer about

 

Ah, forget the football Rover. Stay in the restaurant, have a few beers, bring some flowers back with you or light a candle in memory of your mum, and focus on the good times you shared together.

 

I will Inter thanks. I'm going to the cemetery first to place a solar powered candle on her grave. We'll it's my dad's grave too. I'll probably be drunk by the time I get home lol

 

Send them your address again, they might have lost it.

 

When will England managers realise that the system >>>> the individual players

u cannot play 3/4 players who all want to be in the same area of the pitch

it’s amateur hour still

 

Back to work 💪 pic.twitter.com/AVLeutRO1F

— England (@England) October 11, 2024

Grealish and Kane are back training.

I winder if he will go the complete opposite and rest all three of Palmer, Foden and Bellingham?

 

Rotating Shilton and Clemence. Trying to fit Gerrard, Scholes and Lampard in together. Trying to accommodate Alexander-Arnold in midfield because we were strong at right back.
Too many people in the press and the public bang on about how to fit these players in with zero understanding of how to build a team.

 

I saw a Tweet saying the lineup was like Garth Crooks picking a team of the week.