England Senior National Team General Discussion Thread

The specific incident doesn't really matter when there's objective proof of their compromised commitment to making the right decision.

 

Fair enough, I think the bloke in the VAR room probably drew the lines as accurately as he probably could and this is the outcome, I would have liked Coventry to have won also.

 

Sorry, it's probably annoyed me more than it should've. I've always hated VAR and this is probably one of the worst moments it's produced for me.

 

Same. It wasn’t clear and obvious and should have stood as a goal. But like always, the smaller teams get shafted by officials for the big teams. This is why the FA cup has lost its magic for me. There’s no shocks anymore.

 

1782152227827994943 is not a valid tweet id

 

Clear and obvious doesn’t apply to Offsides. Offside’s are strict yes or no.

 

Offside is factual. Like it or not, the correct decision was made.
Now for me, there's an argument to be made as to whether it should be applied to such a minute degree as it's not what VAR was sold as. It was to stop the howlers like the Maradona/Henry hand ball goals, to make sure serious foul play wasn't missed, and that off the ball incidents were covered. Pre-VAR, this goal would have stood and nobody would have batted an eyelid. The game is poorer for these type of decisions in my book.

 

⚪️🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 21 goals, 10 assists on his first season as Real Madrid player.

Jude Bellingham. ✨ pic.twitter.com/y0ey3vOsLE

— Fabrizio Romano (@FabrizioRomano) April 21, 2024

People still think he’s overrated

Respect Bellingham pic.twitter.com/9hwsZDsmSF

— TheSecretScout (@TheSecretScout_) April 21, 2024

 

They would have to rewrite the Offside law to change it. To something like a so many cm’s or meters ahead.

 

Not to any great degree. Would just be a case of inserting "in the opinion of" into the Laws.
Then you just have any decision that goes to VAR given 30 seconds and no lines. If it's not obvious to the naked eye then the onfield decision stands.

 

That will just lead to more arguements. Even subjective decisions are technically not meant to be subjective according to the laws.

The semi automated offsides means no one draws the lines.

 

There's no perfect solution, but we're essentially looking to fix a problem nobody had before VAR came along.

 

The easiest solution would be to rewrite the offside law. Adding subjectivity would make it worse in my view.

 

An offside is a factual call but extremely tight offisdes like that can almost never be called definitively. It's virtually impossible for VAR, even the semi-automated offsides, to definitively call extremely tight decisions and the Premier League have admitted that. There was a very contentious Sterling offside call a few years back and the frames showed how considering the speed that Sterling was running at, if the frame was frozen 0.02 seconds earlier it would have resulted in him going from just about offside (arguably) to being 13 centimetres onside. It's so difficult, even for a computer, to pinpoint the exact moment the passer's foot makes contact with the ball and 0.02 seconds either way contributes barely anything to that.

Even on top of that there are serious question marks over whether the frame rates and camera quality are good enough to capture these things. I think realistically you'll have a situation whereby you could pick a number of frames from Sunday's call against Cov where you could convincingly argue that's the moment the player's foot touches the ball, and some of those would have seen Wright in an onside position - if he wasn't already.

I think this is partly why they're looking to change the offside law entirely. They've basically opened Pandora's box now with VAR and so we'll probably see a number of rule changes to accommodate its continued existence.

 

Jordan Henderson was doing one to one training back in Liverpool this week. Will he play for Ajax again this season? Only two more matches left.

 

I think they have to because it doesn’t make sense to have a rule that actually can’t be enforced. But it has to be something just as objective and doesn’t have any form of subjectivity written in.

 

I mean personally I'd totally bin VAR altogether but that's not happening. I don't watch MLS so I can't comment but apparently they use the clear and obvious rule for offsides over there and people who watch it claim it works really well. I definitely think VAR calls like today show VAR at its absolute worst and if it's gonna stick around it's decisions like that specifically that need to be mitigated imo; i.e. cancelling dramatic, memorable goals after they've already been celebrated for extremely pedantic and highly contestable "infringements". It's anti-football and anti-emotion.

 

I don't know why for offsides they don't just introduce a threshold of uncertainty for the offsides for the VAR rather than the current system. No one can seriously argue that someone being offside by a few centimeters is seriously gaining an advantage from it, it defeats the purpose of what the law is actually for so there's no reason for there not to be a threshold.

Add a bit of tolerance to the system and you get past the issue of when exactly the ball leaves the foot, and issues like where the line is drawn on defenders arms etc none. If you're still offside with say a 30cm tolerance then fair enough.

 

I agree but l suspect you're still going to get wildly different estimations of what that 30cm tolerance actually is. We're back to individual interpretation again and 'consistency' and 'common sense' don't seem to phrases today's officials are too familiar with.

At the end of the day, l think it will all come back to how quickly they can develop something similar to the current goal-line technology system, which will allow a definitive 'yes, he's onside/offside' decision to be delivered in an instant.

 

7 goals and 2 assists in games against the top 5 in Spain this season. Last minute winners in both El Classico games.

 

🔴 Klopp: "Conor Bradley played a few games or football where we all thought: oh, wow! What was that?".

"But the truth is that nobody is like Trent, that's the way it is". pic.twitter.com/EJmOomLDyh

— Fabrizio Romano (@FabrizioRomano) April 22, 2024

I was at Villa Park yesterday. Ollie Watkins gave a masterclass in centre forward play - now only behind Harry Kane for goal involvements in Europe this season which is incredible. Word for Morgan Rogers too - initial £8m, wow.

— Matt Law (@Matt_Law_DT) April 22, 2024

 

Wolves are considering Arsenal's 25-year-old England goalkeeper Aaron Ramsdale, Liverpool's 25-year-old Republic of Ireland goalkeeper Caoimhin Kelleher, and Sunderland's 23-year-old English goalkeeper Anthony Patterson as replacements if Portugal goalkeeper Jose Sa, 31, leaves the club this summer. (Sun)

Manchester City are willing to listen to offers for 28-year-old England midfielder Jack Grealish this summer. (Football Insider)

A familiar face was being put through his paces at Liverpool's training ground recently as former captain Jordan Henderson, now an Ajax player, was spotted at the club's base enduring an intense one-on-one fitness session. (Daily Mail)

 

#CFC #AFC

Cole Palmer is flagged as a doubt due to illness.

Malo Gusto and Ben Chilwell are being assessed.https://t.co/cckOHhGs0b pic.twitter.com/R2CyBMQFa5

— Ben Dinnery (@BenDinnery) April 22, 2024

🚨 Cole Palmer, not training today due to illness ahead of Arsenal-Chelsea and Malo Gusto currently undergoing medical assessment.

Christopher Nkunku, still in partial team training. pic.twitter.com/NMGnAtnCOw

— Fabrizio Romano (@FabrizioRomano) April 22, 2024

#CFC #AFC

Palmer is a major doubt. 'We will see tomorrow morning. Today, I don't believe he can be involved. Even if he is good tomorrow, maybe he is not in a condition to play. We hope he can recover from this situation and be involved.'https://t.co/cckOHhGs0b https://t.co/TwGanjOA7o

— Ben Dinnery (@BenDinnery) April 22, 2024

#CFC #AFC

'Malo (Gusto) suffered a minor problem on his knee. I am not a doctor, but I will try and translate it. I hope it is not a big issue. Chilly, also, after the national team, it's the same problem (knee) he's been suffering with, in the last few weeks.'…

— Ben Dinnery (@BenDinnery) April 22, 2024

Left back is such an area of concern.

 

1782370631704883576 is not a valid tweet id

Along with Kane and Bellingham I think he's one of the three best English players.

 

Add Phil Foden to the mix and I wouldn't argue with that. I just hope Trent doesn't end up being a bag carrier again at this summer's Euros. It'll be an absolute waste of a World Class talent.