England Senior National Team General Discussion Thread

Yep, no running away from the fact Trent was poor here. I wonder if Southgate will roll the dice one final time with a new name in March or not.

 

Telegraph player ratings

Pickford - 6/10
Walker - 5/10
Guehi - 6/10
Maguire - 5/10
Lewis - 6/10
Alexander - Arnold- 5/10
Rice - 5/10
Saka - 6/10
Foden - 6/10
Grealish - 6/10
Watkins - 5/10
Kane - 7/10
Phillips - 5/10
Rashford - 5/10
Palmer - 5/10


Times Player ratings
Pickford - 7/10
Walker - 6/10
Guehi - 6/10
Maguire - 6/10
Lewis - 7/10
Alexander - Arnold - 6/10
Rice - 7/10
Saka - 6/10
Foden - 8/10
Grealish - 7/10
Watkins - 6/10
Kane - 7/10
Phillips - N/A
Rashford - N/A
Palmer - N/A

 

I don’t see it . We will just get either Henderson or Phillips with Rice and Bellingham for Brazil and probably Belgium.

Phillips needs the right move in January.

 

You’re probably right unfortunately.

 

If Phillips doesn’t move or gets the wrong move then I suspect we will be seeing Henderson starting in Germany.

 

The Sun summing up England’s non Kane alternatives.

‘Ollie Watkins was rewarded for his 12 goals for Aston Villa with a start but touched the ball just 11 times and will be lucky if he gets another chance.

And here is the real problem with England's attack. Callum Wilson is decent but always injured, Marcus Rashford can play at no 9 but is erratic and the likes of Eddie Nketiah and Dominic Calvert-Lewin do not appear to be quite up to the standard.

So all eyes are now on Ivan Toney to see what he looks like when returning from a betting ban in January - while he could end up moving somewhere before the transfer window.’

 

https://www.tntsports.co.uk/footbal...walker-calls-var-penal_sto9891192/story.shtml


‘Southgate also reflected on his decision to move Trent Alexander-Arnold into a more advanced position in midfield, as he looked ahead to the next few months.
“The next exciting bit is we’ve got the [Euros] draw at the beginning of December so we’ll see what the path looks like,” he told Channel 4.
“But there’s lots of players to keep a track of. Trent [Alexander-Arnold] again has done an excellent job in midfield. With Rico [Lewis] coming in, Cole Palmer coming in, there’s lots for me to think about.’


Southgate added on Lewis: "He was excellent, his composure with the ball, the fact that he did respond to that setback [the penalty], which was really, really harsh.
"He is a super footballer, he was excellent I thought and we’re really pleased with him."

That’s the post match interviews of both matches that Southgate has singled out Trent for praise. It does seem like he overall is still interested in at least having Trent as a backup option for Henderson/Phillips/Rice.

 

The game was typical of an inferior one playing a far superior one: North Macedonia played a very low block, aggressive tactics with niggly fouls all the time, and played up to the referee.

I've championed Watkins' cause before but even I admit that he was subpar last night. The game clearly didn't suit him with no space to run into and he clearly isn't the striker to battle with defenders. Maybe it is time to look for a striker more like Kane who can hold the ball up (Toney fits the bill the most). I've seen some say Wilson over Watkins, but Wilson has been rubbish for England too, probably worse than Watkins. No striker has really taken their chance when it has come, Toney hasn't been given a fair chance as of yet so if he comes back in January and hits the sort of form he showed last season he has to be given a go. Think it would be desperate to bring back Calvert Lewin or give Solanke a go, they aren't good enough for England, Toney is the only viable alternative to Watkins and Wilson IMO.

As for Maguire, it's got beyond a joke now. Every time he starts for England he is one of the worst rated players on the pitch. The guy is useless. I don't want to beat a guy when he is down but it serves Maguire right for some of the nonsense he's come out with like cupping his hands to his ears when he scored a goal showing no self awareness whatsoever, he doesn't realise that he's a poor player these days and the main problem is Southgate just looks straight through it. Why call up Konsa if you're not going to play him? Why only play Tomori out of position? His obsession with Maguire is infuriating and if I were picking the squad for the Euros Maguire wouldn't even be in it let alone in the first 11.

Only Foden, Guehi and Lewis impressed last night so not many strong performers. Lewis recovered well from a harsh penalty decision and looked good and Foden was the only one trying anything creative. Guehi completely showed Maguire up but that was obviously going to happen.

 

Guehi is definitely destined for a champions league team

 

Apart from their inate goalscoring ability, the one thing that England strikers like Kane, Rooney and Shearer had in common was their physicality. They outmuscled defenders, kept them occupied and held the ball up, so others could play off them.

Which is why l still believe that apart from Ivan Toney, a fit Dominic Calvert-Lewin shouldn't be written off as a back-up to Kane at next summer's Euros. Sure, he needs a sustained injury free spell, but Watkins, Nketiah and Wilson are just too lightweight for me.

 

The referee was appalling yesterday. Penalising kane for winning a header. The Macedonians were also cheating cynical barstewards

 

In time but it looks more likely if he moves this summer it might be to a team that doesn’t make the CL this year.

 

I didn't get to watch the game properly last night. Kept being dragged away. So please correct me if I am wrong, but the fullbacks didn't overlap. Walker stayed back (at one point Maguire was right back) and Lewis drifted infield. Both Saka and Grealish were doubled up on (though I did see Grealish once be one on one and still refuse to take his man on).

There just seemed to be a real lack of width in our play. We didn't try to get round the back. It just made everything congested in the middle. There were flashes of play where a midifielder would beat his man but then be confronted with two or three other Macedonians.

 

Because of various things they hasn’t been many chances to test Stones and Guehi together. If that paring doesn’t appear against Brazil and/or Belgium it won’t at the Euros baring injury.

 

I think it’s safe to say it won’t, Southgate has well and truly nailed his colours on Stones and Maguire and form and playing time won’t come into it. Think we all know that by now with how he works.

For what it’s worth, I didn’t see the game last night but heard Gareth’s pre match interview so I wasn’t surprised it was a draw. He already set that mindset that it’s a tough game and not many teams go there and get results so by default I think it sets a precedent with the players.

 

Gareth Southgate left with more questions than answers:

- Is Trent the answer?
- Who to play left?
- Who is Kane deputy?
- Maguire…Really?https://t.co/NiLn9lIhNJ

— Matt Law (@Matt_Law_DT) November 21, 2023

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The four squad questions Gareth Southgate must answer before Euro 2024

With Euro 2024 fast approaching, the England manager will look to resolve some dilemmas in his squad and starting XI

Gareth Southgate will not see his England players until March and with only two games left to go before the European Championship, he has more questions than answers to think over for the next four months.

The good news, of course, is that Southgate might not quite have the selection headache he may have expected but none of his experiments during England’s latest round of games really came off and those hoping to prove a point largely failed to do so.

Here, Telegraph Sport looks at the questions Southgate did not get answers to in the final two European Championship qualifiers against Malta and North Macedonia.

Is Trent Alexander-Arnold the answer in midfield?

With Jordan Henderson playing his club football in Saudi Arabia and Kalvin Phillips not playing any club football, Southgate took the opportunity to get a good look at Trent Alexander-Arnold in midfield. He was good, but nothing special in a scrappy overall England performance against Malta, picking out some good passes.

But in Skopje, he gave the ball away too easily and did not look entirely comfortable next to Declan Rice. For all Phillips’ troubles at Manchester City, he and Rice have a good understanding and that was lacking against North Macedonia. Trent’s inclusion also makes it a little more difficult to play with an out-and-out No 10, which is where Jude Bellingham has flourished recently. Alexander-Arnold did not harm his chances of going to Euro 2024 at all, but Southgate is unlikely to be convinced that he will be a starter in Germany yet.

What is England’s best left side?

Robbed of most of his left-back options, Southgate was forced to be creative over the two games. Fikayo Tomori was asked to play out of position to cover for the injured Luke Shaw and Ben Chilwell against Malta, but lasted only 45 minutes before being replaced. In Skopje, Rico Lewis was handed his debut and was unfortunate to give away a first-half penalty that was awarded following a Var check. Lewis played as a hybrid midfielder, while Tomori had played more like a third centre-back with Kieran Trippier pushing further forwards at Wembley.

The only answer Southgate really got from the two games is that he could really do with Shaw and Chilwell being fit this summer. The England manager also looked at two different options on the left side of his attack, with Marcus Rashford offering little and Jack Grealish seeing a goal chalked off for offside. With Cole Palmer now part of the squad and Raheem Sterling pushing for a recall, Southgate will still not be certain who his first-choice starter on the left of his front three is.

Who is Harry Kane’s deputy?

Ollie Watkins got another go at making himself Kane’s number one stand-in, but Ivan Toney may still feel he can force his way back in for the summer on Monday night’s evidence. Watkins was denied an early goal by a decent block, but misjudged a good headed chance from a Phil Foden cross. England simply will not find another Kane and Watkins had come out of the last England camp with credit after scoring against Australia.

Callum Wilson’s injury problems may leave him with an uphill task to travel to the tournament, but Toney has the chance to give Southgate something to really think about when he returns from his eight-month ban in the New Year. It was not a surprise when Southgate called for Kane around the hour mark in Skopje and he forced an own-goal from a header with his first touch. Watkins will count his night as an opportunity missed.

Can England count on Harry Maguire?

Maguire deserves credit for the way in which he has battled his way back into the Manchester United team, but these were two more unconvincing performances for England. Against Malta, Maguire struggled with his passing without John Stones next to him. The Manchester City defender is undisputably one of Southgate’s most crucial players. It was interesting that Maguire was moved from the left of centre to the right for the North Macedonia match, but, again, his distribution let him down.

He was let off the hook by Var after giving the ball away and then comically falling into Eljif Elmas, with replays showing it should have been a penalty. Marc Guehi, on the other hand, was calmness personified in both qualifiers and there must now be an argument to test the Crystal Palace star next to Stones against Brazil and Belgium in March. Southgate has been incredibly loyal to Maguire, but he surely must wonder whether or not Stones and Guehi are now the way forward.

 

From the Athletic

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England at Euro 2024: The questions Gareth Southgate must answer before the summer

Since 2009 you can rely on a few things happening almost every year: a Twitter scandal, a desperate politician making a well-paid, opportunistic dash for the jungle… and England qualifying for a major tournament with relative ease.

There are always plenty of things to moan about with the England national team, but having any problems whatsoever reaching a World Cup or a Euros isn’t one of them.

Since the failure to reach Euro 2008, England have topped every qualification group, playing 74 matches and losing just two of them (one of which was a dead rubber 1-0 defeat against Ukraine at the end of qualification for the 2010 World Cup). Their only meaningful defeat came away at the Czech Republic in October 2019. They still topped that group by six points.

It is easier than ever to qualify, but not impossible to mess it up. The Netherlands missed out on Euro 2016 and the World Cup two years later. Italy somehow missed the World Cups in 2018 and 2022 and were still sweating on Euro 2024 qualification up to the final seconds of their final match last night.

Therefore, England should be quietly praised for their qualification efficiency… but we should also expect them to qualify. Ultimately, reaching tournaments is a given when they have so much quality at their disposal. What we only really care about isn’t qualification, or the FIFA rankings, or the Nations League, but how well England do in major tournaments. That is all that matters.

So, a year on from the World Cup and seven months away from the Euros, how are England placed? Have we learned anything from the qualifiers? Are they good enough to win the Euros? Have they improved recently under Gareth Southgate? Is the XI pretty fixed or are there spaces to fill?

Here are England’s burning questions…

Can England improve on their World Cup showing?

If you take England’s quite decent performance against France in the quarter-finals in Qatar a year ago as a baseline (also taking into account France are the benchmark as the best team in Europe), if the match were to be replayed tomorrow would England have a better or worse chance of winning?

Well, slightly better, owing almost exclusively to the continued emergence of Jude Bellingham as one of the best players in the world. Bellingham was good at that World Cup, but he has since reached greatness, both for Real Madrid and also for England. In a white-hot, moustache-singeing, lift-your-kilts-in-the-air atmosphere at Hampden Park the other month, Bellingham at times looked like he was playing as the only grown man in a youth game. Even some Scots applauded him off.

He followed that up with the defining performance of his England career so far when inspiring his team-mates and everyone in the stands as Italy were beaten at Wembley.


England are a team that, in lieu of having a tactical mastermind as a coach who can conjure up a magic formula that other teams can’t work out, will rely on individual brilliance to win them the big games (as well as an organised and solid defence, something Southgate can do).

Therefore it will probably be up to Bellingham and Kane (and a supporting cast of Bukayo Sako, Phil Foden and Declan Rice) to win them the Euros. They will have to hope Madrid and Bayern Munich are knocked out of the Champions League early and that the lesser intensity of La Liga and the Bundesligaleaves the pair fresher than they would have been in the breathless chaos of the Premier League.

It has only been a year since the World Cup but otherwise, to answer the original question, it is basically the same team, same formation (sometimes a slight variation to 4-2-3-1) and same tactics. England lined up against France with Jordan Pickford in goal, a back four of Kyle Walker, John Stones, Harry Maguire and Luke Shaw, a midfield of Rice, Bellingham and Jordan Henderson and a forward line of Kane, Saka and Foden. Which is probably the team Southgate would still pick tomorrow if everyone was fit.

Basically, no pressure, Jude.

Will Southgate’s trusted players get minutes at club level?

Centre-back looked like an open spot a few months ago but then Maguire was still first choice for England when he was fourth choice and not kicking a ball for Manchester United, so now that he’s firmly back in favour at Old Trafford, he looks set to be in Southgate’s XI in Germany next June.

Southgate has looked at Marc Guehi, whose maturity and composure have stood out, Lewis Dunk (who was excellent in that friendly in Scotland) and a bit at Fikayo Tomori but, if fit, Maguire is very much still the man to partner Stones.

There are question marks over the fitness of left-backs Luke Shaw and Ben Chilwell, which of course need to be answered. At right-back, Reece James has the talent to be first choice but would need a full and flying rest of the season in Chelsea’s XI. The fact he sat out this month’s internationals does not bode well and even then, it is very much Walker’s shirt and he has produced some of his best-ever England performances in the past 12 months.

Rice and Bellingham are fixed, as are Kane and Saka. In the increasingly peculiar absence of Raheem Sterling, Foden and Marcus Rashford look to be ahead of Jack Grealish in the left forward pecking order.

And then there is central midfield. It is baffling that Henderson continues to command a senior position, not in the squad because of what he brings in terms of leadership, but in the team, as in the actual football pecking order, despite him playing in front of about 800 people in an inferior league in Saudi Arabia every week.

If his performances for England were impeccable it would make more sense but, as with Sterling, there is a sense of stubbornness about Southgate’s persistence here. Trent Alexander-Arnold’s emergence as a genuine midfield option could change things, as could some regular football, possibly on loan, for Kalvin Phillips who started both qualification wins over Italy and is integral to Southgate’s preferred approach. But if Phillips doesn’t kick a ball for Manchester City in the second half of the season, should he start in the Euros?

Who will be the subject of the summer’s ‘clamour’?

With squads being reduced back to 23 players, having been bumped up to 26 at Euro 2020 and last year’s World Cup, competition is fierce. That may make it difficult for a player from outside the established group to make a late dash for a place. That doesn’t mean fans and pundits won’t be calling for it to happen, of course.

If you take that stock XI from earlier, plus two backup ’keepers in Aaron Ramsdale and Sam Johnstone/Nick Pope, along with fringe XI players such as Rashford, Grealish, James Maddison, Kieran Trippier, one of Shaw/Chilwell and Guehi, who all look to have a squad spot nailed down, then suddenly you are only down to four or five places left.

Cole Palmer and Rico Lewis benefited from injuries to earn their first caps this month and Lewis’ versatility in covering the full-back spots and being able to play in midfield could make him a late contender, particularly in a smaller squad.

If you want a genuine noisy “get him on the plane” clamour, you are probably looking at Anthony Gordon, particularly as those Geordies can shout very loudly. Gordon is the kind of rabble-rousing, buzzy, explosive, arse-in-the-air player for whom the word ‘clamour’ was invented. If he keeps taking on players at will and scoring loads of goals, then the official best player at last summer’s Euro Under-21 tournament, who is two-footed and very fancy-free, could have someone like Grealish sweating on his place.

Other clamour contenders would include Ruben Loftus-Cheek if he was playing in England (it seems that consistently good form for AC Milan does not guarantee much attention from Southgate, as Tomori can tell you), or Morgan Gibbs-White if he was hitting the heights of last season for Nottingham Forest.

And then there’s Ivan Toney. It feels hard to believe that he has still only played once in an England shirt. He didn’t go to Qatar (the betting allegations came to light six days after Southgate named his squad, with Toney believing the timing was linked to him being left out) but, while Kane of course leads the line if fit, no one else has really stepped forward and nailed down the understudy spot, with Callum Wilson, Eddie Nketiah and Ollie Watkins being the primary contenders.

The latter started in North Macedonia on Tuesday evening but only had 11 touches of the ball in just under an hour before being substituted. That is perhaps a reflection on England’s inability to play the kind of football a striker like him thrives upon (he has, after all, scored 18 Premier League goals this calendar year), or at least, without Bellingham in the team.

If Toney can hit the ground running when he resumes his football career in January, he will certainly be under consideration. If only for his penalties…

 

Another night that makes you think England have to drop Maguire. Piece from Skopje https://t.co/lHRUrlMoxs

— Jacob Steinberg (@JacobSteinberg) November 20, 2023

 

I still think moving John Stones up into midfield - whether it's as a hybrid centre back/midfielder or as an out-and-out DM - could give England that extra element of control in the centre that we seem to need. His inopportune injury has reduced the likelihood of it happening at the Euros for sure, but the rise of Marc Guehi has certainly made it a little more feasible going forwards. It would also release Declan Rice to play a more advanced role like he does at Arsenal.

 

A hybrid could work (But could the other centre back or Shaw manage as their might not very experienced of it.) but unfortunately we don’t really have the depth at centre back to move him full midfield. Guehi is doing well but would Maguire/Dunk/Colwill/Tomori be effective?

 

----------Pickford
Walker-Guehi-Dunk- Shaw
---Stones--Rice
Saka--bellingham-Foden
------Kane

I'd like to see this in the next set of matches

 

as we sit here today assuming no fitness issues, my squad.

GK: Pickford, Ramsdale, Johnstone

DF: Walker, Trippier, Shaw, R. Lewis, Stones, Colwill, Guehi

MF: Rice, Bellingham, Trent, Gallagher, Phillips*

Wing: Maddison, Foden, Saka, Sterling, Rashford, Grealish

ST: Kane, Watkins

*I'm assuming he will leave City in January