England Senior National Team General Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'England' started by BarryfromEastenders, Dec 12, 2022.

  1. Regis Prograis

    Regis Prograis Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Feb 8, 2020
    Its a sad day when Itaily resort to the granny rule.
     
  2. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    Italy have built their midfield around Jorginho a Brazilian .. he only turned Italian in 2016 and he’s 31 !
     
  3. Alex101

    Alex101 Member

    Mar 15, 2017
    Ya when you have youth developement go bad and a league thats 62% foreign, this what you get.
     
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  4. RobTheFool

    RobTheFool Member+

    Apr 19, 2008
    London, England
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Italy always play well against us despite the lineups. Italy 2021 played great as a team without any real individual superstars, I thought if we had played properly we should have won that game, I think we have a better squad but not sure that counts for much against big teams, we suffer from an inferiority complex in big games.

    Also Naples will be a tough place to play, I'd take a draw as like others said we are pretty ruthless against lower opposition whereas I can see Italy slipping up along the line, so important that we don't lose.
     
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  5. Serengeti_Boy

    Serengeti_Boy Member+

    Sep 15, 2009
    Serengeti, East Africa
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Tanzania
    How did Toney get called up?
     
  6. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    Why not ?

    He’s in great form and eligible to play .

    Good job given Rashford did the old ManU trick of pulling out ..
     
  7. Serengeti_Boy

    Serengeti_Boy Member+

    Sep 15, 2009
    Serengeti, East Africa
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Tanzania
    Does Rashford have a history of that? Man he's on great form. Let him take it a day at a time. He's in a team that's on form but really really rely on him, De Gea and Bruno being brilliant. He's tired I'm sure. This is a break for him.

    I totally understand him.

    For Ivan Toney I thought the FA usually doesn't call up players because of political correctness? On that note on Greenwood who didn't get a call after his case erupted, and please not saying he is innocent or anything.

    If United loaned him out to a team where he kept his form hypothetically, would Southgate have taken him to Qatar?

    My question is really about players and pending cases in court.
     
  8. Regis Prograis

    Regis Prograis Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Feb 8, 2020
    They aren’t comparable, Toney’s is not a criminal case, Greenwood’s was and a very serious one. Everyone has seen the evidence surrounding the Greenwood case, so it doesn’t look good. He’d have to do a lot of work to improve his image and a lot of time would have to pass before and if he was considered again.
     
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  9. Kalvin Phillips?

    uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/italy-vs-england-euro-2024-081704234.html
    Gareth Southgate is ready to put his faith in Kalvin Phillips and pick the Manchester City man against Italy in a crucial Euro 2024 qualifier despite the midfielder not yet having started a Premier League game for his new club all season.

    Phillips, 27, who has suffered with a prolonged shoulder injury since joining City from Leeds United for £42 million in the summer last started a league game on May 22 last year – the last of his Leeds career. Yet Telegraph Sport understands that he is in the team for the Euro 2024 qualifier against Italy that Southgate hopes will set the tone for a fourth successful qualifying campaign under his charge.

    The England manager is expected to start Phillips in midfield with Jude Bellingham and Declan Rice.

    It is also anticipated that he will start with a front three of Bukayo Saka, Harry Kane and Jack Grealish – the latter getting the nod over his City team-mate Phil Foden.
     
  10. AJ123

    AJ123 Member+

    Man Utd
    England
    Feb 17, 2018
    I don't really mind that system. It means Bellingham is free to play as the attacking midfielder which is what he's best at.
     
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  11. roverman

    roverman Member+

    Dec 22, 2001
    Yes if its Philips and rice giving Bellingham a free role thats a positive. It means Southgate is learning. Philips and rice are the perfect shield
     
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  12. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Not sure about this squad. How white isn’t in there is being stupid

    also never underestimate Italy

    they could play 2 roadsweepers and a customs agent and still grind a result out
     
  13. Wendigo7

    Wendigo7 Member+

    Bournemouth
    England
    Mar 31, 2015
    Poole
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    We’ve got the same issues here.

    Actually youth development is decent, not great, but playing time is abysmal.
     
  14. Wendigo7

    Wendigo7 Member+

    Bournemouth
    England
    Mar 31, 2015
    Poole
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Happy in some aspects with the squad, dismayed in others.

    You have a cycle here to bring through the likes of Colwill and Tomori and we aren’t doing it. It’s tragic.
     
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  15. roverman

    roverman Member+

    Dec 22, 2001
    Our underage teams have done well over the last few years
     
  16. Iansutton270390

    Iansutton270390 Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    England
    Jan 12, 2019
    I agree with Tomori but colwill has only just came back from injury and he's young so there's plenty of time with him.
    I get the feeling colwill will be Southgates type of player when he's back playing regularly. Only a matter of time before he's in.
     
  17. MrSnrub

    MrSnrub Member+

    Oct 7, 2018
    #542 MrSnrub, Mar 23, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2023
    I think its pretty clear with Tomori, Southgate simply doesn't rate him. I don't expect him to appear much if at all over the next 18 months. He barely played in the Nations League last summer, and he's now behind Guehi who's been very average this season in the pecking order.

    Don't imagine it will get any easier for him if/when Colwill gets a run of games.

    It's a pretty mixed bag really, the under 21's have continually been a embarrassment, under 19's have largely done well, under 17's results have largely been mixed/poor by the age groups since the 2017 group.

    In terms of player development we had a big upswing on players flowing to the national team squad between 2018-2020, but since then its died down a lot - somewhat naturally in the sense it obviously wasn't going to be like that forever, but a bit disappointing in the extent of drop off. As much as i'd like Southgate to be proactive its also fair to say in the last 2 1/2 years no one has really emerged from those already in the squads in 2020 to stake a good claim for place in the side, which is a bit of a shame we've not built on the 2021 final. Think we'll regret that one, the last world cup was there for the taking with no stand out teams. Very unlikely an easier path will emerge any time soon.
     
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  18. AJ123

    AJ123 Member+

    Man Utd
    England
    Feb 17, 2018
    I think this is pretty misleading. The 2020 and 2021 u17 & u19 Euros were cancelled so what you're talking about is that we didn't win a youth tournament for two years before winning the u19 Euros last year. Even if you go back to the 2018 u17 Euros, we lost to Holland in the semi finals on penalties in a game where I think we were the better side but couldn't finish. We were certainly good enough to win that tournament and that was without our two best players at the time in Greenwood and Jones. The 2003s certainly would've been hot favourites to win their u17 Euros if they hadn't been cancelled given that Bellingham, Musiala, Elliot and Colwill could've been in the squad along with all the players that won the u19 Euros last year.

    In 2017 we won the u19 Euros, the U17 World Cup and the U20 World cup, along with being runners up in the u17 Euros on penalties and losing in the u21 Euro semi final on penalties - it's safe to say that it was a really strong generation. The big intake a couple of years after that is to be expected and as a by-product it would make it harder than usual for the next generations to break through. The disruption that Covid had on development of those immediately subsequent generations will have also played a part making it harder.

    I'd also class Bellingham as breaking through after 2020 and now he's a first choice player. He made one appearance in 2020 but he's certainly in the generation after the big intake from the 2017 tournament winning cohort. I'd also add Greenwood to that but it's hard to legislate for player behaving like that off the pitch. I think Levi Colwill will be the next one from this generation to break through if he can overcome his injuries.

    No doubt we've had some disasters since 2017. Not least when we turned up to a tournament with a number of players that weren't even eligible to play! The current u18s also seem a weaker cohort but even then you have players like Mainoo and Ndala in there that could become England regulars.

    Personally I'm quite positive about the level of talent coming through.
     
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  19. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    Team -

    Pickford, Walker, Stones, Maguire, Shaw, Rice, Phillips, Bellingham, Saka, Kane, Grealish.
     
  20. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
     
  21. sinner78

    sinner78 BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 7, 2001
    I think Rashford dropped out because he knew he would be on the bench no matter what his form is. Against Wales he put in that monster display and still got dropped for Saka.
    Southgate favours saka . You can 2nd guess all his selections and no doubt Italy will know what to expect.
     
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  22. AJ123

    AJ123 Member+

    Man Utd
    England
    Feb 17, 2018
    Not sure about that. Rashford plays on the left or through the middle. He's start ahead of Grealish at the moment. I think he pulled out because he's injured.
     
  23. Serengeti_Boy

    Serengeti_Boy Member+

    Sep 15, 2009
    Serengeti, East Africa
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Tanzania
    I agree. Saka is a left footed RW while Rashford does the opposite. It's grealish who won ahead of Rashford.
     
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  24. roverman

    roverman Member+

    Dec 22, 2001
    Would have started james ahead of walker tonight
     
  25. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    Southgate mentioning Henderson not being able to train as part of the reason for Phillips starting.
     

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